00:02Relief. I'm delighted, but also very conscious of the work that lies ahead.
00:08But today, undoubtedly, is an historic day for the Scottish Parliament.
00:12At third time of asking, it's taken the steps to back the general principles of a bill when assisted dying
00:18to allow the detailed scooting out to take place and the consideration of amendments. So I'm delighted.
00:25And as you say, third time of asking, what do you think has changed in the Parliament that's allowed MSPs now
00:31to be able to at least give this their backing in stage one?
00:34I think there's a number of factors. I think the make-up of the Parliament is very different from back in 2015
00:40when we last voted on a bill. We've had a couple of elections, so around two-thirds of the MSPs that voted here this evening
00:46hadn't had an opportunity to debate or vote on it last time round.
00:50I think also what we've seen since 2015 is a number of jurisdictions around the world,
00:55most notably in Australia and New Zealand, taking forward implementing legislation
01:00very similar to the terminal illness mental capacity model of assisted dying that I'm proposing here,
01:06introducing it safely and successfully. We've seen a shift in the medical community
01:10where the BMA, Royal Colleges of GPs, Physicians and Surgeons have all moved from a position of opposition to neutrality
01:17and we're even seeing a shift within the faith community to a position of neutrality.
01:23So I think public attitudes have changed and alongside that I think political attitudes have started to catch up with
01:29where the public generally has been for quite some time.
01:32And you've said Stage 1 work is, the work begins now, what is it that you think you're going to have to do to be able to get this
01:39sort of the line at Stage 3?
01:41Well I think that's for me to discuss with colleagues and with the committee.
01:45There was some of that reflected probably in the Health Committee's Stage 1 report
01:50and I thought the convener set out very clearly and helpfully some of the areas where she and her members on the committee,
01:59colleagues on the committee, will want to kind of pursue issues at Stage 2.
02:03And I'm very committed to continuing that engagement in a constructive fashion.
02:08I mean ultimately I think I've drafted a bill that's pretty robust and heavily safeguarded,
02:14but as with any piece of legislation there are always amendments that need to be considered.
02:20And I think on an issue like this in order to build the majority of support amongst the MSPs across the parties
02:27there are going to have to be compromises made, but I'm up for those discussions
02:31and I'm sure they'll be taken forward in the same respectful and measured way that we saw the debate taking place this afternoon.
02:38And just in that vein obviously a lot of MSPs said during the debate that they were willing to back it
02:43at Stage 1 and then consider amendments and revisit their opinion at Stage 3.
02:49Is there anything for you that in this bill is off the table that you are unwilling to compromise on?
02:54Well fundamentally it's about choice, it's about making sure that those that meet the eligibility criteria
03:00of an advanced progressive terminal illness and mental capacity
03:04and have made the informed choice that they want an assisted death have access to that.
03:10We need to put the safeguards in around that that do protect the vulnerable, that do make sure that only those
03:16that meet those eligibility criteria are able to access it.
03:20I'm confident that that can be done, but in a sense that would be my red line.
03:25This is about providing that choice. And the choice goes two ways.
03:28We need to make sure that things like the conscientious objection are robust and provide protection for the choice of medical practitioners as well.
03:36I'm confident that that can be done and I'm looking forward to engaging with the committee and with MSP colleagues
03:42with an interest in bringing forward amendments over the coming months.
03:46And just finally, you mentioned the way that the debate was conducted.
03:49We heard a lot of comment in the chamber about how this debate went and the way that it was conducted.
03:54How do you think it went?
03:55I thought it was parliamentary at its best. I don't think I can remember being as proud of the parliament as I was this afternoon.
04:02It was a long debate. It was an emotional debate.
04:05But you saw colleagues across the parties prosecuting their arguments powerfully, passionately and compellingly.
04:13And being able also to listen to the arguments that were being made by other colleagues and doing so in a respectful fashion.
04:19So I think at a time when there's a lot of cynicism around politics and politicians, I think what you saw in the chamber today was, as I say, parliament at its best.
04:28Thank you very much. Pleasure.
04:30Pam Duncan-Glancy, you've just come out of the chamber now. Can we get your first reactions to the vote today?
04:34I'm heartbroken, as many people will expect.
04:37A lot of people have put a lot of work into convincing people or trying to convince people that there is huge risk with this legislation.
04:44But I also believe that I heard a lot of trepidation from some colleagues about the concerns and some of the safeguards that they feel are not in the current bill as it stands.
04:53Some have said that they couldn't support it in its current form.
04:56And I believe that at stage two, as the parliament continues the scrutiny of this legislation, it will realise and colleagues will realise that there is no safeguard that can be amended into this legislation that will provide the protections against the risk that this legislation brings.
05:10What will you be doing now in terms of this bill moving forward?
05:14I'll be talking to colleagues, everyone who wants to talk to me about it. I'll be talking to them about my views. I'll be talking to them about their views.
05:20I'll also be listening carefully again to some of the debates that we heard today, difficult as some of them are to hear, so that we can understand what people's concerns are and talk to them about providing them support and evidence to help them come to their view in the next stage.
05:38Do you think that this shows that there will be enough support at stage three or is it still too early to say?
05:43I think it's too early to say. So the way that the parliamentary matter works, eight people need to change their minds. So we need to flip eight views. And I fundamentally believe that when people start to try to amend this legislation, to get it to a place that they believe protects everybody in society and protects against the risks of this legislation, I fundamentally believe that they will realise that they cannot amend it to the extent that it requires to be amended.
06:11And that hopefully they won't support it at stage three. Pam Duncan Glancy, thank you very much.
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