- 7 months ago
Chef Duane Nutter joins Sid Evans on Biscuits & Jam to talk about his culinary journey from Morgan City, Louisiana, to the Seattle food scene, and ultimately to his celebrated role in Southern cuisine. He shares how his early exposure to international flavors and Southern staples shaped his cooking style, the story behind his new cookbook 'Cutting Up in the Kitchen,' and the moment he served Maya Angelou.
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00:00Dwayne Nutter, welcome to Biscuits and Jam.
00:02Pleasure's all mine.
00:04Where am I reaching you right now, Dwayne?
00:06Mapleton, Georgia.
00:07Oh, okay.
00:08Yeah, a little suburb outside of the city.
00:12Okay.
00:12Is this his home base for you?
00:14Home base.
00:16It's where all the magic happens.
00:18And I hope you're commuted and too bad to the restaurant?
00:22No, no, it's probably about 15, 20 minutes.
00:26No traffic.
00:27That's nothing in Atlanta.
00:30The problem is finding a no traffic.
00:32Yeah, right.
00:34Well, Dwayne, I just want to start by saying congrats on the book.
00:39Well, thank you.
00:40It looks great.
00:41I haven't seen a physical copy yet, but it looks like a lot of fun.
00:45I've been looking at the PDF.
00:49It's called Cutting Up in the Kitchen, Food and Fun from Southern Nationals Chef.
00:56And I've got to ask you, you've been at this for a pretty long time.
01:01What made you want to finally do a cookbook?
01:05Well, there was two reasons.
01:06I definitely wanted to just get my story out since, as you know, you start to age and all
01:12of a sudden you start seeing friends passing away.
01:15And I was like, I've got to get something down on paper since I have no kids.
01:21So you were motivated by the clock.
01:24Mortality.
01:25Yeah.
01:28When time flies, it flies.
01:30And tell me about the title.
01:32It's called Cutting Up in the Kitchen.
01:34So a little nod to your side hustle as a comedian.
01:39Yeah, yeah.
01:40In my little early days when I was running around Atlanta, I was always at the comedy club
01:45and hanging out, trying to be funny, being sarcastic at work, getting in trouble.
01:52Dwayne, why aren't there more comedians in professional kitchens?
02:01The people take food too damn serious.
02:04I'm like, I take my food serious, but I make sure I have fun while I do it.
02:11I mean, you know, I was talking to someone on the staff earlier today and we were trying
02:15to think of other folks that did both that were comedians and chefs.
02:22And I couldn't come up with any.
02:24I'm sure there are some.
02:26There's not many.
02:27There's not many.
02:28I met one guy who started, he was a young buck.
02:31And it was an open mic.
02:34I don't know where I was.
02:35I was in another city.
02:36And he goes, man, I worked the line at such and such grill.
02:41I said, well, you got one day you got to pick one master because you can't do both.
02:45But it's, you know, it's kind of a unique angle for a cookbook.
02:52And, but it's also a really unique just, you know, angle for your career and to kind of
03:02be involved in both.
03:05I mean, do you see any correlations between comedy and being a chef?
03:11I mean, do you find that the comedy has kind of been a creative outlet for you as a kind
03:17of a nice, you know, way to just, you know, do something completely different?
03:22Yeah.
03:22It's one of those, like a relaxing situation, even though it's kind of stressful trying to
03:28be funny.
03:29Yeah.
03:30But I think any, anytime you can get away, totally detached from your main gig is kind
03:37of relaxing to put your mind frame in something else.
03:40Yeah.
03:41But it's the similarities, I would say, is actually the storytelling part.
03:46Once you get into the groove and figure out your, your style of cooking and what you want
03:50to present on the plate and who you are, then you start telling your story through your food.
03:55Great comedy is all good storytelling.
03:57And of course, another sarcastic joke in there here and there, but you all started off with
04:02a premise in the story.
04:03Yeah.
04:04Yeah.
04:06Do you, would you say that you came from a family of storytellers?
04:11Yeah.
04:12I find out when I was a little earlier, I heard my dad was really silly.
04:16He played the drums.
04:17I can't play the drums.
04:19I hear music.
04:20I just can't play music.
04:22Uh-huh.
04:23But my grandmother was on my dad's side.
04:26She was quite spunky.
04:28And I figured out that's probably where I got it from.
04:32On your dad's side, you said?
04:34Yeah.
04:34On my dad's side of the family, my grandmother, she was, she was a, she was a hoot.
04:38So you always had something crazy to say to her nurses or something.
04:42So Dwayne, you were born in Morgan City, Louisiana, right?
04:45Mm-hmm.
04:46But you were only there until you were seven or so.
04:50Right.
04:50So I'm wondering what your connection to that place is like.
04:57You know, talk to me about how you kind of identify with, with Louisiana.
05:05And, you know, does, does that, does that feel like kind of a home base for you in a way?
05:12Or was that, you know?
05:14It definitely feels like that when it's time to like totally recharge.
05:19Yeah.
05:19And you have to go like to where you first started dreaming.
05:24Yeah.
05:25Walking down that street, see the old house or the whole pile of rubber where the house that you grew up in was.
05:32See the neighborhood, the tree I got stuck in when I was a little kid.
05:36That thing is still there.
05:37Do you still have family there?
05:39Yeah, well, not in Morgan City.
05:40I have a few cousins there, but most everybody's in Lafayette.
05:44Yeah.
05:44My uncle and everybody's in Lafayette.
05:46They moved from there because it's once that Slumberjay Oil Company left that little town.
05:53Nothing's been there since then.
05:54What was it that, that brought your folks to Seattle?
05:59Oh, it was actually because I needed to learn how to read.
06:02I was a dyslexic kid back then, still is, but they didn't know anything about that in Louisiana at the time.
06:10It was like, hey, your kid's just writing upside down.
06:12What's going on?
06:14And so my mom did a lot of research and we went to the University of Washington when I first got to Seattle.
06:20And I had a few cousins up there and I got tested for the severity of my dyslexia.
06:27And they figured out what a school district to put me in.
06:31And then me and my mom moved in that area.
06:33And then that's when I went to school.
06:35So that was the main reason for going to Seattle.
06:38And you just moved there.
06:40This was just with your mom?
06:42Yes.
06:43And was that hard for her to leave Louisiana?
06:47I mean, did she, you know, really have connections there?
06:50Yeah, it was pretty hard.
06:50As I got older, I hear the stories.
06:53Different relatives calling her.
06:54Hey, they found a school in Baton Rouge.
06:56You can move back.
06:57She's like, well, he's having a good time now.
07:00He's got a bunch of friends.
07:01No sense in disrupting a good thing.
07:04Yeah.
07:05Well, I want to ask you about your mom.
07:08You dedicated this book to all the cooks in your life, starting with her.
07:15And her name's Rosalind.
07:17Rosalind, is that right?
07:18Yep.
07:19Oddly enough, Rosalind Russell.
07:20So tell me about her style of cooking and, you know, what was on the table?
07:27Oh, man, it was special occasions was, I guess, a lot of overtime.
07:34She was a nurse and some pot roast every now and then.
07:39Some of the things that remind you of home.
07:43See, before Amazon and all that came out, they had a thing called Greyhound and dry ice.
07:51Uh-huh.
07:51And that's how we would get the camellia beans, the Tony's Chacheree, the good andouille sausage.
07:58And that's how we'd get grits and stuff like that would get shipped up from the south from relatives to Seattle.
08:06And that's when we would have all the red beans and rice when we had the good red beans would come from Louisiana.
08:13Yeah, I mean, if she was really a cook and, you know, had those deep Louisiana roots, it had to be hard for her walking into those grocery stores and, you know, trying to find what she was looking for.
08:33I had no idea a crab cost money until I moved to Seattle.
08:38Right.
08:39You just throw a net, right?
08:41Yeah, it was a relative or uncle or somebody would bring by some stuff, some shrimp, some fish.
08:47We'd help everybody help clean it.
08:49We'd clean out the old milk cartons, clean the shrimp, put it in the milk carton, line them up in the deep freezer.
08:55Before the Tupperware came out, running under water, we'd say, oh, we're going to have some fried shrimp.
08:59It was like, it was free.
09:00And we'd just run it under some water, rip open the carton, thaw it out, season it up and go to town.
09:07When you think about your own cooking, I mean, does Louisiana, does Cajun cooking play kind of an outsized role?
09:18I think I said in one quote that I'll probably put a bay leaf and some thyme and some dish that it has no business in just to remind me of my home.
09:29Yeah.
09:29So that's – in strange places in the recipe, you might find a bay leaf that some French guy would be mad at me because I did it.
09:38Uh-huh.
09:40Hey, I'm trying to make it taste like home a little bit.
09:43Yeah.
09:43You know, I was looking at that dedication and, you know, there's a number of people in there and I wanted to ask you about a couple more.
09:53And one of them was your Uncle Bob, who you called a quiet assassin on the barbecue pit, which I kind of love.
10:00Tell me about what was his specialty.
10:03Man, it's like he's just – I guess he wasn't allowed to smoke in the house, so he just mind his business and set up this little kitchen outside.
10:12Right.
10:12And he was really good at frying some fish.
10:17And I think I talked about him in a Garden and Gun article a long time ago.
10:21He does some good ribs.
10:22And one time when I was young, he really flipped me out when he cooked some beans on the grill and had tilted the lid so the smoke could get on there and get inside the pot.
10:35Yeah.
10:36And I had these navy beans that were smoked.
10:39And it wasn't from – it was different.
10:40It wasn't from a smoked ham hock or sausage or anything.
10:44It was just smoked from, like, real smoke.
10:46And I was like, oh, man.
10:48I said, man, you a bad man.
10:52And he'd just laugh with a little soft voice.
10:55Call me by my middle name.
10:58Get out of the way, boy.
10:59Which is?
11:00Sherny.
11:01Sherny?
11:02Really?
11:02Yeah.
11:03Wow, you don't hear that every day.
11:05No, it's a little Irish situation.
11:10Oh, that's great.
11:11So he's a pretty creative cook.
11:13Yeah, yeah.
11:14He can get down.
11:16Uncle can get down.
11:17Cousin Janice in Seattle, she can get down.
11:20Well, so a lot of people in the family, for sure, that could cook.
11:24But I want to ask you about another one who had a pretty big impact on you, and that's Daryl Evans.
11:30Talk to me about him and how that connection kind of changed your trajectory as a chef.
11:40That was a special moment in time back then.
11:43I think the first time I saw him on TV, I think I was still in high school, and I think it might have been the 88 Olympics.
11:50He was on the team.
11:52I think they were on the Today Show getting ready to go to Frankfurt, Germany.
11:56And I was like, who is that little dude in the background just running circles around everybody?
12:03Then I tracked him down when I was – and it was also the same time I decided, okay, I want to be a chef.
12:08I'm going to do this.
12:09Now, who's going to teach me how to do the things I want to do or who I'm going to learn from?
12:13And I tracked him down.
12:16I think it was like a pork competition or something.
12:18I don't know if you remember way back in the day in all those magazines, we had the California Raisin Competition.
12:24You had the –
12:24Yeah.
12:25You had the avocado competition.
12:27You had a pork competition.
12:29It was paying money, too.
12:31And you send in your recipe.
12:32And then I finally found out where he was working.
12:35He had won the pork competition.
12:37I think he had beat Bobby Filet back then before Bobby Filet was Bobby Filet.
12:41And I got his number.
12:45I was sautéing at this Italian restaurant in Seattle.
12:49I went and called it from the magazine and just introduced myself and said who I was and what I wanted to do.
12:55And he said, well, when you get down here, give me a call.
12:57I'll show you around.
12:59And then I just saved money.
13:01I worked at the Washington Athletic Club in Seattle.
13:05I was doing overnight baking.
13:06And then at the Italian place, I was sautéing on the line.
13:11During the day or at night, that second shift, 3 to 11.
13:15And I did the 3 a.m. to 11 a.m. baking.
13:19And then saved up all my little money, flew down here, stayed at the Motel 6.
13:25He came and picked me up, showed me around Atlanta.
13:30Well, I said, I'll go work with whoever trains you.
13:32So I applied at Cherokee Town and Country Club.
13:36I think Mark Erickson was working there at the time.
13:39And Catherall had Tom Toms and Prime and all that stuff.
13:44And I came back the next summer.
13:47And he had the job at the Occidental Grand.
13:50And I turned down the job at the Cherokee to go work there with him.
13:54And the rest is history, really.
14:00I got there.
14:01I don't know.
14:02I just turned 21.
14:05Yeah.
14:05Had me a little one-bedroom apartment.
14:07Stayed with my cousin for a little while.
14:09The rest is history.
14:10I was at the Occidental Grand when it turned into the Four Seasons.
14:15And by that time, I probably became the Garmentier Chef.
14:18And then we left there.
14:20And we went to Villa Christina out there in Dunwoody.
14:28And that was quite the experience.
14:31I used to feed Maya Angelou a lot up there.
14:34Really?
14:35Yeah.
14:35She had a house up there.
14:36She would call whenever she was in Atlanta to see if we'd stay open a little late for her.
14:42And I was like, yeah.
14:47Chef de Cuisine at the time was like, I got to go hang out.
14:52What are you guys talking about?
14:53Who is this lady?
14:55I was like, dude, you don't know Maya Angelou?
14:58We'll stay open.
14:59I mean, what would that scene have looked like?
15:02So did she come in and kind of have her own set up?
15:06Would she come with a group of friends?
15:08No, it was usually just her and her driver.
15:10And she would come in.
15:14She called first.
15:15And then I think it was me and Todd mostly working the nights.
15:19That's Todd Richards.
15:20Yeah.
15:21We was working.
15:22And that was like the first time a customer ever gave me like a bottle of wine.
15:28She brought us to the table the first time and was like, first she wanted to know how we made everything.
15:33And then why we were doing what we were doing and what brought us there.
15:38And it was called home like, dude, you ain't gonna never know who I just fed.
15:46This is like, you know, just turned 22 or something, 22, 23.
15:51And like your first big time feeding is Maya Angelou.
15:55So whenever she would come to Atlanta, she kind of tracked down where Chef Evans was and get a little something to eat, lunch or whatever.
16:03That's amazing.
16:04Did she have a favorite dish or something that you remember?
16:08I just remember the salmon dish we did.
16:11It was a smoked salmon.
16:12We cold smoked it and then seared it to order.
16:18I think we had like a little olive tapenade, a little Chardonnay cream.
16:21You know, it was the 90s.
16:24And I think we had potato wrapped it back then.
16:31You know, you did the shoestring potatoes.
16:34Because I think Chef was like, because Tom Catherall trained him, right?
16:39So I think when Tom did azaleas, he had this potato wrapped trout dish.
16:45So Chef was like taking his, that idea and doing it, applying it to the salmon.
16:50And we was trying to, we was figuring that out.
16:53And I remember that distinct.
16:54It had like a little tiny frittata with it.
16:56Yeah.
16:57With roasted peppers and roasted garlic inside of it.
17:00And one of those little stem moldes, I remember now.
17:03And Todd would working on the station and pop it out.
17:07Yeah, it was kind of crazy.
17:08We did like this, doing way too much when you think about it.
17:12It's like we had this, this crepe, like this red wine crepe.
17:18And we put it in the pan, make it look like a fish net, lace it.
17:22It looked like the fish was caught in the net.
17:23It's crazy.
17:26Just creativity running wild.
17:28Yeah, just a bunch of kids, just bougie for no reason.
17:31Yeah.
17:31Oh man, that's great.
17:36That's great.
17:37That was good times right there.
17:39Did she ever give you any advice?
17:40No, not really.
17:41Other than just, you know, just being true to who you was when you was like doing your true passion.
17:50Yeah.
17:51You know, that was, that was gold.
17:54You know, don't get caught up into the hype.
17:57And I always took that to heart.
17:59Kind of like, probably why I chose the name of the book.
18:03I'm the only silly cook I know.
18:06When you met Daryl and got to know him a little bit, did it mean a lot to you to see a black chef having the success that he was having, particularly at that time?
18:23Yeah.
18:24Yeah.
18:25Because there's not many people that look like you doing the thing you want to do.
18:30Especially when I was in Seattle and I said I wanted to cook, everybody was trying to get me to go work at Shoney's or Applebee's.
18:38And I was like, that ain't what I'm talking about.
18:42Right, right.
18:43I think I need, I'm trying to get some more.
18:45I've got other plans.
18:46Yeah.
18:46Yeah.
18:46I'm trying to get into a more creative space than, than just a quesadillas.
18:51And nothing wrong with quesadillas, but I wasn't going to make a living making quesadillas.
18:56So I definitely will eat a bunch of quesadillas.
19:00So, uh, yeah, that was, uh, that was like a, uh, oh, it can be done.
19:10And it was like, that would probably 80% of the people in the kitchen.
19:14It was at a guy that came down from DC, Patrick Clark had sent him and, uh, he moved to Atlanta.
19:22Uh, I think Todd just happenstanced.
19:25He was going through his cooking gypsy life and he was working next to him at Tom Toms when he was in between gigs going to the hotel.
19:33Yeah.
19:34And then we had a guy named Reggie.
19:36He worked with Bonchay.
19:38Remember my old Gene Bonchay back in the day?
19:40So he was all Frenchy.
19:42You just let him make all of her blocks.
19:43Give it to that guy.
19:50And, um, then we had Shuler, of course, Daryl Shuler.
19:54He was in the kitchen with us.
19:56Yeah.
19:58First African-American master chef.
19:59And, uh, who else?
20:03John was there.
20:03This guy named John.
20:04He, he has a little barbecue place now.
20:08I think him and his chef was on the same Olympic team with chef in, in the nineties.
20:14And then you guys really fueled each other.
20:17Yeah.
20:19It was, it was high competition.
20:21All right.
20:21So Dwayne, I want to ask you about the comedian thing.
20:25Um, you move your to, you moved to Atlanta and you're,
20:29in your early twenties.
20:31What was a, what was a formative experience for you when you were trying that out, when
20:38you were kind of on the standup circuit?
20:41I mean, was there a certain club or venue, um, where it kind of clicked for you?
20:46Um, I'd say it was, um, Roswell, uh, the punchline at the Roswell where it started to
20:55click.
20:56Yeah.
20:56Uh, and Uptown Comedy Corner.
21:00You know, when it was on, uh, Peachtree, those two clubs.
21:06And then I started doing, uh, when I really started to figure out what I was doing, it
21:11was, I started doing improv at a whole world theater on, um, I think they're up a spring
21:19street or one of them streets.
21:20It's still cracking the day.
21:22Um, and, uh, I would do two or three days there and then we would have shows on Sunday
21:29nights and then, um, open mic was Tuesdays at both clubs, the punchline and, uh, and you
21:39could, uh, and Uptown, you could, if you planned it right, have some friends sign you up.
21:45You could, you can hit one on one side of town and then, and since I was one of the guys
21:51who had a car, cause I had a job, like, let me get a ride to see if I can get me five minutes
21:57at this club.
21:58And so I got a seven, eight Cadillac full of comedians driving across town trying to get
22:05some stage time.
22:07So when you think about your material, I mean, uh, and I think you said this in the book that,
22:14you know, you, you, um, wouldn't crack jokes about, about being a chef.
22:21Um, what's so funny about being a chef?
22:24There's a lot, there's a lot out there.
22:27If you just pay attention, there's, uh, there's things that happen in high stress moments that
22:34could be funny.
22:36And, and sometimes you need to poke fun at those moments.
22:40So it helps the people that's really stressed out, let them know that it's okay.
22:45And they can, they can get through it.
22:47There's a lot of folks that get a little frazzled when there's, uh, more than 10 things going
22:52on at once.
22:53And a lot of us can handle five things at one time, but 10 things to get us a little
22:57hairy.
22:58Yeah.
22:59And so then I'll come in and kind of like smooth the thing over and let everybody know
23:03it's going to be all right, though.
23:05It's just groceries.
23:06And, uh, you know, and letting, letting folks know that they came to see you and the main
23:15thing is don't mess the dish up trying to get it out too fast.
23:20Just steady and just get it right.
23:24Well, I'm guessing you just, you get to see all sorts of humanity working in, working in
23:30kitchens.
23:30Oh man.
23:32Yeah.
23:32You get the good, the bad, and the ugly.
23:34I mean, from the guests, you're like, who came in this bathroom and we fed them.
23:43I would not invite this person back to my house.
23:47And, uh, and the same with just like, I don't know if you remember Ratatouille is just like,
23:54sure, that that's probably the best kitchen movie restaurant movie.
23:58Cause it's like all walks of life.
24:03Right.
24:03You heard that guy was a hit man.
24:04No one ever really knows, you know, that guy used to own a bakery and now he's a line
24:09cook.
24:09I mean, it's, you got car mechanics, you got physics, you got engineers that just left the
24:18gig and like to cook.
24:20This is a hodgepodge of, it's a pirate ship back there.
24:24Yeah.
24:24Now we, and now we have the bear and we've thought, you know, we've seen the same thing
24:28with that.
24:28Right.
24:29Yeah.
24:30So, uh, Dwayne, speaking of, you know, getting a glimpse of humanity, um, you were at one flew
24:38south in the Atlanta airport, terminal E, amazing restaurant, um, that really kind of changed
24:48the notion of what an airport restaurant could be.
24:52Um, and I, I ate there many times and, and it was always just, it sort of took you away,
25:00uh, from where you were, uh, which was the airport.
25:05It kind of transported you to somewhere else.
25:08Those were some, those were some special times.
25:10It was before I had gray hair, actually.
25:11It was a different Dwayne.
25:15But talk to me about what are some things that you learned about, about humanity being
25:20in that airport and cooking for that clientele for so many years.
25:25It had to be a really just interesting mix of people that would come through, come through
25:30the door.
25:31Yeah, it was, uh, the first few, first year or so was a little more challenging because
25:35I was coming from a traditional restaurant, was at a hotel, you know, the lamb, lamb's
25:42high, switched the protein, you know, venison's gone through the roof.
25:47Let's change it up.
25:48Oh, scallop's out of season.
25:50Let's do this.
25:51But I realized the loyalty of people that have to travel for a living.
25:57Some things you just can't change all the time because people get comfortable and they
26:03need that familiarity to get through the day.
26:06And, uh, paying attention to people more than just paying attention to the food was, uh,
26:13probably my biggest thing I learned.
26:15And I think that's when I started to hit the stride as, you know, part of the menu was
26:21for people that came all the time.
26:24There was a guy that worked at the security company in Dubai.
26:29He came twice a month.
26:31I always kept a hot pepper.
26:33He needed something spicy.
26:34So there was always something for him.
26:37And then there was, uh, there was another guy that's so like medical equipment.
26:41He never sat down.
26:42Like the people see him at the bar and just move his, move the chair out of the way.
26:47Like, yeah, we're setting him up right here.
26:48They're like, what's going on?
26:49This guy doesn't sit down because he flies so much.
26:51He has to stand up and eat.
26:52And there's all these little things when you start paying attention to people and they just,
26:58they just reward you by just coming back and you just keep doing your thing.
27:01I mean, I remember Russell Hitchcock was a regular in there.
27:08I wish I knew the guy's name, the wrong answer guy, tell a story in there.
27:12He was a, he was a pivotal point in, in all the employees.
27:15They never forget that guy who is yelled in the restaurant.
27:18Yeah.
27:19Do you, do you mind just sharing that real quick?
27:21The, the, the wrong answer story?
27:23Yeah, he was, uh, it was funny, but not funny.
27:27Cause again, paying attention to people.
27:30And this was a very aha moment.
27:32Uh, the train broke down, you know, but in Atlanta airport.
27:36So he had to walk a mile to get to one flu.
27:39So the escalator ripped up his shoe.
27:43So now he has like one shoe tore up in his hand and like the conveyor belt ate up his
27:49headphones wire set.
27:51So now he has no music for a long trip.
27:54Everything's going to be all right.
27:55Cause by the time he gets this into this mile walk, he's going to get to one flu south.
28:00And then we're going to, he's going to have that scallop dish that Dwayne does.
28:04And when he got there, scallop dish was gone.
28:09And that's when he blew his lid.
28:12So the, so the, the, the waiter, I guess, told him that the scallop dish was gone.
28:17And he said, that's the wrong answer.
28:20He said, that's the wrong answer, but he stood up and said it.
28:23So everybody in the damn restaurant can hear him.
28:26And he was talking to the general manager at the time, Brad, he said, Brad, that's the
28:29wrong answer.
28:30You got to come better than this.
28:32And from that moment on, I realized that, uh, maybe I can just change the scallop sides
28:38and just keep the scallop because there's going to be a few people that's there just
28:43for that particular reason.
28:45So it's about taking care of your people, taking care of your customers.
28:48Yeah.
28:48Yeah.
28:49Yeah.
28:49Once you, once you identify that, you just, just keep, you just keep doing what you need
28:55to do for your people.
28:55So Dwayne, what is different about Southern National and what, you know, obviously completely
29:04different thing, but you know, when you, when you were, um, getting that off the ground,
29:10what did you want to do differently that you, that you hadn't been able to do, um, at One
29:18Flew South or what was, you know, what was the direction you wanted that to go?
29:22Well, I'll say I kind of stayed the same direction, but I kind of want to maybe, uh, spend a little
29:29bit more time with the people, with the dishes as well, because it's such a, the airport was
29:36such a fast pace.
29:38So then there was just certain things that just couldn't do because of the pace and, and
29:43there's things you can do because your pace can be a little bit slower than a traditional
29:46restaurant versus the airport and space and time constraints and everything else.
29:51I think it was really just being able to sit and see the people more because that's probably
29:55why you see my, uh, plate up station in the dining room and just, uh, be more a little
30:02personable and letting folks know that this is, you know, there's no TVs in here.
30:07We're just kind of cooking and having a good time and, uh, and we're just paying attention
30:11to the food and hopefully, hopefully the service is good and, uh, people can communicate and
30:16do what people do when they go out to eat and share their time with friends and loved
30:22ones.
30:22Yeah.
30:23Sometimes coworkers, closing deals, you know, all the things that we do at restaurants and
30:29just kind of, you know, just kind of sit back in the pocket of society and let, let, let
30:33life happen in front of you.
30:35It's kind of what we do.
30:36I want to ask you about a recipe from the book that, uh, I think you serve at Southern
30:44National and it's called Lamb Burger Helper.
30:48Oh yeah.
30:49Is that on the menu still?
30:51Yes.
30:52Yes.
30:52Yeah.
30:53So, you know, this isn't the sexiest name I've ever heard for a recipe, um, but it does
30:59look awfully good.
31:01Um, I mean, there's a great photo of it in the book and it just, it looks like something
31:05that, um, you know, people would get very excited about when you set that down in front
31:12of them.
31:13Um, talk to me about that, that recipe.
31:15Yes.
31:16Uh, you know, that's another one of those digging into your childhood to tell your story.
31:20And I, I did eat a lot of, uh, hamburger helper.
31:25Well, you know, I'm that generation where it came out.
31:27Um, I remember the commercials, the little hand jumping around on TV and I was like,
31:33okay, well, as an adult, what am I going to do?
31:36I'm not going to make that.
31:37And I was like, well, I'll just flip it around a little bit and, you know, did basic research
31:45and besides all the preservatives that they have in that box, they have oregano.
31:50You know, so I decided to do my version of that hamburger helper, but with lamb.
31:55Yeah.
31:56It's one of the first things I learned besides, I think it was the bologna sandwich was first.
32:02And then I learned how to do the hamburger helper by myself.
32:06And I did good with that.
32:08And then my mom showed me how to make red beans and rice after that.
32:10And it was like kind of the order.
32:13So I wanted to put that in there somewhere cause it was so early in my childhood of learning
32:19how to cook.
32:20And, uh, that's, that's my nod.
32:23When you think about all the recipes in the book, is there one that kind of represents
32:30your style of cooking?
32:32And I mean, you've been, you've been kind of ahead of the curve, um, on Southern cooking
32:38for a really long time.
32:39And we're introducing new ingredients and new styles and, and kind of, um, I think taking
32:48Southern food into some new directions.
32:51Um, is there, is there a recipe that kind of represents that for you?
32:57I think it probably will have to be probably the muscles and the collard greens that I finally
33:06put in there.
33:08Uh, that's another one that came about at the airport and it's kind of follow me around.
33:15I usually only put it on the menu, maybe half the year and then like bring it back at a certain
33:23time because it's like, it's been following me ever since I came up with it at the airport.
33:29And it went through a lot of different iterations and, uh, and it finally stuck on this one.
33:34And this is what the people said they wanted from me.
33:38And I think, uh, you know, the growing up in the South and eating mustard greens, collard greens,
33:45and all that stuff.
33:46And, uh, and I, I remember the smell when I was riding my bike around Lake Washington
33:52and the Puget Sound or whatever, of those muscles on the side of the, on the rocks and
33:59the seagulls are mashing up, mashing them up and eating them and stuff.
34:03And you can, you can smell them.
34:06And, and I was like, you know, what would make a good pot liquor and I can get them two
34:10together? That might, that might make an even better pot liquor. And I just kept playing around
34:16with that, the idea of the pot liquors getting together. And that's how I came up with that
34:20mussels and collard greens, I think way back in 2009 and I'm still cooking it now.
34:29Well, I mean, she, you obviously did something right. And, um, yeah, I love that the, the people,
34:36you know, the people know what they like and they're going to ask you for it. Yeah.
34:42Yeah. Yeah. I have no problem with that. I'll, I'll switch it up. Um, right now I'm finding
34:49that my chicken dish, the verber spice chicken with the, uh, I fried a chicken with a potato
34:58starch and corn starch. So it's like a gluten-free fried chicken situation. Yeah. I had no idea
35:04to be that popular. So I took that off and there was a few people was like, well, I ain't coming
35:09back until you put it back on. They were, they wasn't lying either. They did not come back to
35:13the restaurant until I put it back on. And then I, I did this chicken schnitzel doing a shout out to
35:19old, old Atlanta legend, Sean Doty back in the day. He was a schnitzel king down here. And I was like,
35:27I'm back in Atlanta. I'm going to do a chicken schnitzel. And, uh, and then the chicken schnitzel
35:32people, when it went off, it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then I was like, yeah, man,
35:36you haven't had this, this verber spice chicken that everybody's going to, as soon as I put it on
35:40the internet, there's like 20 people just show up. Just like, I told you I wasn't coming back until
35:44you put that chicken back on. I'm like, dang, you guys are for real.
35:51Well, those are hardcore fans.
35:54Yeah. Hopefully I'm not stuck into just two chicken dishes for the rest of my life.
35:57Well, um, Dwayne, we got to talk dessert for a second. Um, there's a, uh, citrus pound cake
36:08with buttermilk and bourbon in here that looks right up my alley. Um, and I think you said something
36:15in there about how you done a million different variations on this one. Why did it take you so
36:22long to kind of perfect it? Well, I know it's like, you're always playing with these pastries.
36:28Uh, I mean, if you're into that sort of thing, but, uh, it really was, um,
36:35during the pandemic down there in Mobile, I was also supplying some stuff cause I have a baking
36:41background for this coffee shop that was around the corner. And, uh, I kind of dialed that cake in
36:49just so you can dip it in some coffee. So it's a little denser than an average pound cake.
36:57I'm not whipping a lot of air into it or nothing like a classic, you know, uh, scenario. I specifically
37:04wanted it to be a certain way so you can dip it in the coffee. And then, uh, between the buttermilk
37:12and, um, the bourbon, when you're getting that, that smell and that almost as that zingy
37:20zip that you get from buttermilk and then the citrus kind of enhances it. It's just like,
37:26oh man, this is serious. So between, so I was, I was aiming for the smell you would get when you dip
37:36it in the coffee and those flavors had to be strong enough to stand up to the coffee and the cake had
37:41to be dense enough that it'd still be like a cake. It won't just totally fall apart when it hit the
37:47coffee. That's what I was going for. Now, whether you dip it in coffee or not, or just have it with
37:52whipped cream, that's fine. But that that's the reason why it's not full of air and all that other
37:58stuff. And it's just a little bit more dense than the average pound cake. Well, it sure does look good
38:05and it sounds good and we're getting toward lunchtime here. And so I'm really starting to think about it.
38:11So, well, Dwayne, I just have one more question for you. What does it mean to you to be Southern?
38:18Ah, what does it mean? That's an interesting question. The South is so complex. It's got
38:26dead history, bad history. But if you just get together and talk about it, it's just history.
38:32What's going to be the future is the real question.
38:39Besides being the best cooks in the land.
38:46That's about it. I mean, you get a little bit of everything down here because of the
38:50proximity to the equator, that Southeast situation. And you can grow potatoes, you can grow mangoes,
39:01you can grow everything down here. So that's a blessing. I don't think you can. Although
39:09the folks in California are cheating. I will say that they don't have to learn about canning
39:16and preserving and all that. That's just, it's good right off the tree. All right.
39:22You know, we got to, we got to do some work to make our stuff taste good in the winter months
39:26sometimes. And, you know, the smoking, the curing, the pickling and all that part of the
39:31South is, it's like part of the rhythm of the South, I believe that I've just come accustomed
39:37to, that I probably wouldn't. I'd probably have too much time on my hand if I stayed in
39:42California because it was, like I say, stuff's good everywhere.
39:48Well, we're, we're awfully glad to have you in Atlanta.
39:51Well, thank you so much.
39:53And, uh, congrats on the book, Dwayne. It's called Cutting Up in the Kitchen. Um, and, uh,
39:59and it's fantastic. I know you must be excited to have it out there.
40:03Yeah, I finally got the baby out there.
40:04Yeah.
40:05I finally got my story out.
40:07Well, congrats on that. And, uh, thanks so much for being on Biscuits and Jam.
40:11Oh, and you know how I love biscuits.
40:16You take care.
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