- 5 months ago
On Friday's edition of Zolak and Bertrand with Alex Barth and Tim McKone, the guys previewed the Patriots preseason games. While discussing how the team may handle these games, Barth listed which positions fans should keep a close eye on.
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00:00Barth, is this like Christmas morning for you when it comes to the Patriots in preseason game number one?
00:06Does this get you hot and bothered?
00:08So it's funny, I feel like I get asked like five or six times a year at this station if it feels like Christmas for me.
00:12There's the draft, the start of training camp, the start of preseason, the start of the regular season,
00:17the start of the college football playoff.
00:19Like, as far as those go, look, it's fun.
00:23We get to go watch a football game tonight.
00:25I know some people would say it's not a real football game.
00:27It's better than nothing.
00:27As far as Christmases go, like, I'll take the start of camp.
00:31I don't know if I'll take the start of camp over this.
00:33I'll take the start of the regular season over this.
00:35I'll take the draft over this.
00:36I'll definitely take the start of the college football playoff over this.
00:39It's low on the Christmas list, but like, yeah, I mean, we're one step closer to real football.
00:44We've all been here watching a preseason game, especially the first preseason game.
00:49Oh, boy, I get to watch my favorite team play football today.
00:51This is great.
00:52It's going to be like football season again.
00:54And then you watch five minutes of the game, and you're like, all right, like, it's not football.
00:57So it's fun.
01:00You know, the joint practices have taken a little bit away from what these games ultimately are, certainly.
01:05But we're still watching football, and I'm not going to complain about that.
01:09I put preseason game number one in a bucket with the dunk contest and the home run derby, where I feel like it's just long enough.
01:17By the time it actually gets to the point of preseason game number one, I forget what a bad product it actually is.
01:24So I get excited about it.
01:25And then, like you said, five minutes in, I'm like, oh, that's right.
01:28Same thing with the dunk contest.
01:29By the time that thing comes around, I'm all jacked up for it.
01:32And five minutes in, I'm like, oh, that's right.
01:33But this is not actually a good product for sure.
01:37Now, you've been at camp every single practice so far.
01:41So I'm interested to get your expectations for this team coming into the year now and whether or not you've adjusted those expectations based on the practices that you've seen so far.
01:52Colin Coward on the other day talking about expectations for the Patriots.
01:57Take a listen to this, Barth.
01:58I looked over my predictions that I made a few months ago.
02:01Josh Allen's going to win the division for as long as he's in his prime.
02:04The Patriots are the safest double your win total bet in the league in five years.
02:08I wouldn't change a thing.
02:09AFC North prediction.
02:11Ravens are the class of this division.
02:13I think because of all the noise around the Bengals, all because of ownership, I'd probably move the Bengals out.
02:20Steelers-Browns just not good enough.
02:21AFC South is weak.
02:23Texans are going to win the division.
02:24In the AFC West, if I move Cincinnati out, because I predicted they'll make the playoffs, I would put the Broncos in, I'd get the Bengals out, and I'd move Sean Payton in.
02:39Do you agree with them?
02:41Patriots?
02:41Doubling their win total here, potentially?
02:43I think it's in play.
02:45I definitely think it's in play.
02:47Now, part of that is they just won so few games last year, right?
02:50Usually when you talk about doubling win total, you're getting into double digits and things like that.
02:53And that's not the case here.
02:55But when you look at the moves they made this offseason, and their week schedule is absolutely a part of it.
03:01Has to be.
03:02I think you have to factor that in.
03:03I don't know that I'd be as confident if they were playing.
03:06I was talking to Stenberg before the show.
03:07Obviously not going to play a first-place schedule, but looking at the Eagles' schedule and some of the teams, they've got to play.
03:12They've got to face that.
03:13I think they're playing the AFC West, right?
03:15So that's a factor, too.
03:17But I think it's realistic.
03:19And the thing for me, when we were doing those win projections when the schedule came out.
03:22So I had them at nine games they should win.
03:25Doesn't mean they will win, but nine games they should win.
03:28And I'm driving home, and I remember thinking, like, what am I doing?
03:32Nine games for a team that won four last year.
03:34Like, what am I thinking?
03:35And there's two things that I guess I'm assuming that lead to that.
03:40Number one, you're assuming Drake May takes a year to leap.
03:43And so far in these practices, he's looked like he's on that track.
03:45Well, that's what I was going to ask you.
03:46When it comes to some of these, like, projections that you have so far, has anything in camp that you've watched led you to believe that that's not going to take place?
03:54And Drake May is probably top of the list, right?
03:56We all expect that year to jump.
03:58Based on what you've seen at practice, you expect that to actually take place.
04:01So one of those things, again, was predicated on Drake May getting better.
04:05And so far in camp, he's looked better.
04:07I think especially that practice on Wednesday, the thing that stood out to me, he elevated the offense.
04:13It wasn't a perfect day for the offense.
04:15It probably could have looked worse if Drake May didn't do some of the stuff that he did, but he did it.
04:21And he deserves credit for that.
04:22The other thing, I go back to Mike Vrabel's introductory press conference when he talked about, he was asked about the pillars of his program.
04:28And he said a good place to start is we're not good enough to take advantage of bad football, right?
04:33The Patriots have been one of the worst teams at creating turnovers.
04:36They have one of the lowest rates in the last two years, scoring points after getting the ball off a turnover.
04:43Their penalty margin isn't good.
04:45Like anything that you would consider taking advantage of bad football and not shooting yourself in the foot.
04:50I think they're going to be better at that.
04:52That's something, and I have my game preview up on 98.5thesportshub.com.
04:55Matt Dolph has one as well.
04:56But one of the things I'm looking for tonight, and this is harder to judge in practice.
05:01You can kind of judge it, but you've got to see it in the game.
05:03Just the operation of it.
05:05Are they getting in and out of the huddle?
05:07Are they lining up correctly?
05:08Are they avoiding stupid penalties?
05:09Are they not burning pointless timeouts?
05:12We saw a lot of that last preseason.
05:14And I think a lot of people chalked it up to, that's preseason.
05:17They're, you know, working stuff out.
05:18But in retrospect, that probably should have been a bigger red flag than some people, including myself, treated it.
05:24Oh, you think that carried over during the regular season?
05:26Yeah.
05:27Remember that commander?
05:28It was the commanders last year.
05:29Or did, was it Chooks, a core four, or a Darian Lowe jumped off sides four plays in a row?
05:34Do you remember that?
05:35Yeah, I do remember it.
05:36I want to say.
05:37I think it was a core four.
05:38I think it was, too.
05:39So, yeah, wouldn't you know it, that kind of ended up being a little precursor to what we saw before Chooks ultimately left the team.
05:4613 snaps later, he's out the door, yeah.
05:48But just, and I'm expecting that to be a lot better.
05:51This is a veteran coaching staff.
05:53This is a staff that's preached the details.
05:55I think it's been a camp that's focused very heavily on the details.
05:58I don't know that it's going to be a perfect operation in the first preseason game, but minor little things, fine.
06:05It shouldn't be, again, four penalties on four plays because you can't line up correctly.
06:10Or calling a timeout because guys don't know who's supposed to be in the huddle or not.
06:13Like, I think that, it sounds dumb.
06:16That can go a long way, especially against a weak schedule.
06:18And we'll get our first look at their real operational operation tonight.
06:23I think we kind of got it, though, honestly, in that joint practice.
06:25You know, we had Mike Reese on after practice to kind of give a sort of a recap of what he saw down there.
06:30And leading into that, you know, I went back and I dug through what a lot of people, including yourself, Barth, wrote about the joint practice post the Eagles.
06:39And, again, that should have been a monster red flag in terms of what the operation was going to look like during the regular season.
06:45There were more sacks than completions during that practice.
06:48I think you had them at, like, nine penalties throughout that thing because, obviously, they had the refs for the joint practice for the Eagles.
06:54And I walked away from that joint practice with Washington saying that I think that the comparisons for the year before and the Gerard Mayo-era Patriots, or that team at least, should kind of be put to the side.
07:06And I think you need to start to compare the operation that the Patriots are going to have to other organizations that have sort of rebooted here.
07:12So I personally would look more towards, well, what's Washington look like, right, versus what and what Washington looked like last year versus what the Patriots looked like.
07:22Because I think you've turned the page, and it was so bad last year.
07:24Again, I always say it.
07:26You went the wrong direction in overtime, right?
07:28You picked the wrong direction with the win in Tennessee.
07:30Not ideal.
07:31Not ideal in terms of the game day operation.
07:33And so when I just look at, I think the expectation in the bar should be a lot higher for this year's team based on the head coach, based on the offensive coordinator, based on some of the other coaches that are on this coaching staff and the expectations in year two of Drake May.
07:47So that operation should be buttoned up, and I think you should be kind of comparing it to something else other than last year's Patriots team.
07:54Yeah, the bar should be higher than that.
07:57Absolutely.
07:57But it's still something.
07:58Again, my expectations are high in this regard, but it is a first-time coaching staff, new building, new setting, all of that.
08:05Like, I think that that is kind of what the first preseason game is about.
08:09It's just about, all right, this is where we want everybody to stand on the sideline.
08:13Like, know where you're going.
08:15We need to come in the game.
08:17Check out.
08:17Do you know what packages you're in?
08:18Do you know what formations you're in?
08:19Are you not committing penalties?
08:21Things like that.
08:21But, you know, we hear it all the time in camp, like a quarterback throws an interception right,
08:26and people will say, hey, you know, it's a training camp interception.
08:29He's trying something.
08:30You threw the pick, but you'd rather throw it in that setting than in the game.
08:33That doesn't really exist with the operational stuff.
08:35You're not taking experimental penalties.
08:38So that's something that I just think tonight is a really good opportunity to judge.
08:43All right, 617-779-0985.
08:45Like you mentioned, Barth, you have up on your key takeaways.
08:48Do we have a snappy name for this, by the way?
08:50Is it like Barth's Bites?
08:52What are we going with here?
08:52So I do, during the regular season last year, I started doing a thing on Fridays called Five
08:58Things, which is just five thoughts about the game in general.
09:01So I'm just, I'm making it five things for the preseason.
09:03We can come up with a better title than Five Things, Barth.
09:06I kind of like the Bites thing.
09:07We add a little crunch sound to it.
09:09Yeah.
09:10Maybe we workshop with that.
09:11Coming up next, Barth, we'll get your thoughts on what you're looking for.
09:14Coming up tonight, Washington versus the Patriots.
09:17The storylines to watch for this game.
09:20And one of them you have is all of the tackles.
09:24All of the tackles.
09:25Not just Will Campbell.
09:26Like, I've been trying to stress this a lot because I think it's the most under-talked
09:30about part of this team right now.
09:32Yes, Will Campbell, fourth overall pick.
09:35Massive investment.
09:36That picture always jumps to me.
09:38I got to get Fowler a new picture.
09:42Will Campbell, tremendous investment.
09:44Very important player for this team.
09:47All of that.
09:48And we're seeing him up against NFL competition.
09:51And it's important.
09:52It's a good measuring stick.
09:52I thought he had a good practice on Wednesday.
09:54Does he build on that?
09:55They also have a 34-year-old right tackle who's been limited throughout practice.
09:59And, you know, I know some people are saying, well, what if Campbell has to move to guard?
10:02Even if he's good at tackle, both tackles playing 17 games in the NFL is rare.
10:08It's a physical position.
10:09Guys get hurt.
10:10The depth there has not been good this camp.
10:12Marcus Bryant, the seventh-round pick rookie, has started to come along a little bit.
10:17That's as much as you have.
10:18DeMontre Jacobs, last year's starter, has not had a right tackle, has not had a good camp.
10:23So's favorite player, yeah.
10:23Vidarian Lowe was on PUP for most of camp.
10:26He's still very limited.
10:27They have Jack Conley, who's a UDFA from BC, who hasn't gotten a ton of run.
10:31And that's kind of it.
10:32Caden Wallace is playing guard now.
10:34So hopefully you don't need to use your tackle depth a ton, but we know how this thing goes.
10:40And so I couldn't tell you right now who the backup left tackle is.
10:44I don't know.
10:45It's probably Bryant, but he's also the backup right tackle.
10:48And if Morgan Moses is going to be in and out, what does that mean?
10:52I think that there's definitely jobs to be one.
10:55You're not just looking at does Will Campbell belong.
10:57Who's going to be backing him up?
10:58Because that's important, too.
10:59Does Will Campbell belong would be my next question to you.
11:01What have you made of his camp so far?
11:03Looks like it so far.
11:03Yeah.
11:04He had that one rough day, which was really a rough period.
11:06It was a rough period.
11:07Don't get me wrong.
11:07Like Caleb on chase on hand him his lunch.
11:09But outside of that, he hasn't looked out of place.
11:12There's, you know, the growing pains that come with being a rookie, but he's held his own.
11:16The big thing to me where he's improved the most when he was getting beat early in camp, he was getting beat.
11:23He would lose the rep early and the guy was by him.
11:26And this is in pass pro.
11:27And that was it.
11:28Like it was done.
11:29He was to the quarterback.
11:30Now, what he's been a lot better at is even if he gets beat on the initial half step or whatever, right?
11:37First half step.
11:38Dietrich Weiss.
11:38He had this with Dietrich Weiss on Wednesday.
11:41He has a better ability now to recover and either lessen the extent to which he's gotten beat to buy his quarterback time or even come back and win the rep.
11:49So, for instance, Weiss tried that outside in move on him, got that first half step.
11:54Campbell adjusted and was able to get him on the ground and ultimately win the rep.
11:58So, that's part of what makes some great offensive linemen really great.
12:02You're not going to play 65 snaps in a game and never get beat.
12:06But if somebody does get the initial step on you, can you still come back and win the rep?
12:10And I think he's grown there pretty significantly for what is a short period of time.
12:15I think he's grown there pretty significantly over these first couple of weeks.
12:19Barbs Bites.
12:20Next up.
12:21Does Efton Chisholm take the next step?
12:23Yeah.
12:24So, Efton Chisholm obviously had a great spring.
12:27And he continues to be solid this summer.
12:29He's getting open.
12:29He's catching the football.
12:30He did have the drop in the in-stadium.
12:32But that was kind of the only one.
12:34It feels like he's doing as much as he can do with the opportunities he's been given.
12:39And usually you see that guy start to move up and get some more reps with the first unit so he can really make a roster push.
12:45And that just hasn't happened yet.
12:46Maybe there's something else going on that we're not seeing.
12:49I don't know, but seems to me like the kind of guy that would get some more rep with the ones, especially now Kendrick Bourne's hurt.
12:56And Matt Collins is still easing his way back in.
12:58And maybe there are some snaps there.
13:00I know it's a crowded room.
13:01So, if he's going to make that leap, like the only thing he hasn't done yet is perform in a game.
13:06Right.
13:07And that's a chance tonight.
13:08And I think he'll probably play a lot tonight.
13:09It's just me guessing, but I think he'll play a lot tonight.
13:11So, if he is really going to make this roster push, and to do that, he's going to have to get reps with Drake Mayne against the starting defense.
13:19You know, he's got to do whatever he needs to do to get up to those first team reps.
13:22It feels like a good performance in the game might do that.
13:24You know, it's interesting you brought that up.
13:25Obviously, what we can watch down there is limited based on where we are.
13:30But when Josh Dobbs came in, when they first got things started with Washington, the security blanket there was Chisholm.
13:36Made a couple nice plays early on there.
13:37And you're like, you know what?
13:38This kid is getting open, doing everything you want.
13:40How much of this is the Pop Douglas thing and the fact that they have some options when it comes to it.
13:44And it's crazy to say that because we always talk about how limited they are at receiver.
13:48But it feels like when it comes to somebody playing inside there, there is some depth.
13:52Well, it's funny.
13:53We've done this the last few years where we talk up the Patriots wide receiver room being competitive and then it's ultimately not great.
13:58Those are two different things.
14:01A room being competitive just means all the guys are about the same skill level, right?
14:04So, it could be competitive, just not good.
14:06So, like, when we had, you know, Christian Wilkinson competing with – I don't remember if all these guys were on the team at the same time.
14:14But, like, Nikhil Harry and Tyquan Thornton, that was – it's competitive.
14:17It's competitive, right?
14:18So, now, look, I think ultimately – I said this on a podcast yesterday.
14:23I don't know that the ceiling of this wide receiver room is astronomical unless Diggs really turns back the clock.
14:29I think the floor has been raised significantly from what it was the last couple years.
14:33It just feels a lot more professional, a lot more buttoned up.
14:36So, I do think this is not the same as the last few years.
14:39There is that competitiveness you're talking about.
14:41I don't think Chisholm's redundant with Pop Douglas.
14:43I've seen a lot of people say that, and they might line up in the same position, but Chisholm is short area quickness, physical receiver, chain mover.
14:52He doesn't have that straight line speed.
14:55Pop Douglas is more of a vertical player who can play horizontal but can also play more vertical.
15:00To me, it's sort of – like, Edelman and – everybody wants to compare Pop to Edelman.
15:04Yeah.
15:05And I get why.
15:07Yep.
15:08Pop, to me, is more of like a Danny Amendola, almost Chris Hogan type.
15:11Now, Hogan was bigger, but a guy that, yes, lined up in the slot, but had more speed to stretch the field vertically, was, you know, a great threat.
15:22Not that Edelman wasn't a threat after the catch, but I think Edelman was better maybe before the catch than after.
15:27I think Pop is better after the catch than before.
15:31If Chisholm's redundant with anybody to me, and I don't think this guy's making the team, so maybe it doesn't matter.
15:35If Chisholm's redundant to anybody with me, it's Jalen Polk.
15:38He's a power slide.
15:38All right, hold that, because we'll get into some Jalen Polk stuff a little bit later, but when it comes to the wide receiver room and what you're talking about with Pop Douglas, maybe it's different.
15:45But do you think that the production – if Drake May takes that jump, if this offense under Josh McDaniels looks the way that I think a lot of fans are hoping it's going to look like, is the production there going to be for Pop Douglas?
15:55Is it going to take that next leap?
15:57So maybe – I don't know if he's going to ultimately be the volume guy, though.
16:02Okay.
16:02Because he's had some problem with injuries.
16:04He's a smaller guy.
16:04To me, if somebody on this team is going to catch 100 balls, it's Diggs.
16:08If Diggs stays healthy, I think he's more of a chain mover at this point in his career.
16:12I think him in that Z option role is where he's going to thrive.
16:16I think with Pop Douglas, things I'm looking for statistically, right, where I think he could really improve and be impressive.
16:22Yards per catch.
16:24Yards after the catch.
16:26Percentage of catches for first downs.
16:27Like, I think he's more – if they're going to run the ball well and you're going to be hitting Diggs for 8, 10, 12 yards at a time and you're getting a team to creep that safety up, now here comes Pop Douglas either running up the seam behind him or you're going to run him on a drag past that safety and make that safety catch him in a foot race.
16:45I don't know that he's the guy you're feeding the ball 12 times a game.
16:48There's nothing against him.
16:49I still think he's a really good player.
16:50I've always been high on Pop.
16:51I think there's more to his game than what we've seen through the first couple years of his NFL career.
16:55I just think stylistically he's more of a big play threat than a volume guy.
17:00617-779-0985.
17:02We'll get some more Barth Spites here coming up in just a second.
17:04But first, let's sneak in a couple phone calls.
17:06John's in Franklin.
17:07What's up, John?
17:08Hey, guys.
17:09Happy Friday.
17:11Yeah.
17:12So, listen, I think the expectations for this team are a little insane.
17:17Don't get me wrong.
17:18I am so excited for Abel's at the helm.
17:20I can't tell you how much I believe in that guy as a coach.
17:23And I hear people talking about, like, 10 or 11 wins, and I really think it's very naive and crazy.
17:30I expect and I'd be happy with seven to eight wins.
17:34And let me explain that real quick.
17:36I want to see an upward trajectory of this team with the talent especially, you know, guys that they've drafted.
17:42I want to know we have players going forward.
17:45But more than that, and more than anything, I want to see at the end of the year basically the rest of the NFL being like, whoa, we got to watch out for these guys next year.
17:54You know, and I'll give you a very quick example of that.
17:56You know, you look at Denver last year, right?
17:59At the end of the year, you know, a lot of people were like, whoa, Bo Nix is not that bad of a player.
18:04He's pretty good.
18:05He's developing, and look out for Denver next year, and that's kind of how I feel about them this year and how I want to see, you know, kind of the Patriots develop this year.
18:14And, you know, I just want to see, basically, if you look at last year, they had such hot garbage at talent, and obviously the coaching was just completely inept.
18:25So I just want to see May, you know, develop obviously more.
18:28And more than anything, I want to see him stay healthy and not take stupid hits to his head, and I want to see that we can count on him going forward.
18:36Thank you, guys.
18:37A lot of good points in there.
18:39I think the expectations are tied to what you think of Drake May.
18:43If you're somebody who believes in Drake May, like Drake May with this team around him, yeah, nine, ten wins is not unrealistic if you're a believer in him.
18:50If you're somebody who thinks that some of the red flags last year maybe were more on him than the coaching staff, then, yeah, that number's a little high.
18:56I get asked a lot, what's a successful season for the Patriots, right?
18:59Playoffs, ten wins, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
19:02And this is maybe oversimplifying, but I have three major checkboxes I'd like to see from them this year.