- 5 months ago
Harley-Davidson's Pan America 1250 is a bonafide adventure motorcycle, but how does it stack up to the competition? In this episode of The Motorcyclist Podcast we cover the good and bad of Harley's big-bore ADV.
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SportsTranscript
00:00hey welcome back to the motorcycles podcast this is where we talk about motorcycles and we'll make
00:04some great topics on the show always change but the one thing that always remains is two wheels
00:08fun on this episode we are going to talk about harley davidson's pan america 1250 that's a harley
00:16davidson adventure bike but before we do that we're going to make introductions we got adam
00:21laheed he's the only healthy one on this podcast at the moment we got jeff allen he's got 11 broken
00:27ribs and some small holes in his lungs and you got me executive editor justin dawes and i'm getting
00:33over covid so uh we are gonna sound maybe a little bit off uh today but we're gonna give it our best
00:41go so uh as we said we're gonna talk about harley davidson pan america 1250 this is harley davidson's
00:49well we'll call it first with quotations around first uh adventure bike i guess the buell ulysses
00:56could be counted as harley davidson's first adventure bike and um we'll say early harley
01:02davidson's probably all were adventure bikes depending on you know where you rode them right
01:08totally so uh but this is those old hill climbers were adventure bikes oh yeah yeah man with the
01:16chains on the wheels the that the statue in front of the harley davidson museum with the hill climber
01:21is one of the raddest statues i've ever seen in my life yeah yeah that old stuff was pretty cool
01:26yeah it's a it's a since we don't have a if you're listening we have to describe it for you
01:31it's a hill climber he's going up a hill he's got a chain on the rear tire it's an old you know
01:3620s harley and 30s harley and he's like hanging off the bike it's he's on the edge of control it's a
01:43really cool statue if you ever get to the museum you won't ever forget it for sure you can't miss it
01:48can't miss it it's beautiful so um this first uh adventure bike comes in three variants the special
01:57which is the we'll say the normal adventure motorcycle uh an st which is street focused
02:03and a cvo touring model um and this is the first model to use harley davidson's new uh revolution
02:11max 1250 engine so we'll talk a little bit about that as as well but let's let's get into the details
02:18of of the uh the pan america so i say and i think probably both of you agree with me that this is
02:26very much a real adventure motorcycle this isn't some half-baked attempt to take something harley
02:31davidson already had and turn it into an adventure motorcycle it's not like a sportster with some long
02:36suspension on it or something like that no you guys agree yeah yeah yeah no it's yeah real adventure
02:42bike yeah the whole thing was ground up yeah ground up ground up build which we'll talk about here
02:47um it does have some harley davidson styling uh it is polarizing in its look to say i like it
02:55yeah i like that it looks like a harley and i like that it doesn't look like other adventure bikes
03:01yeah yeah i think that's neat too i agree yeah i would say that it looks much better in person than it does
03:08on a page on a screen when you get around it it the proportions make sense but sometimes in photos
03:14it's hard to find a good angle on the bike um well plus we had gotten used to what adventure bikes
03:20look like yeah yeah pointy except in you know that that kind of thing and this is this is uh you know
03:29it's got that big long wide or i should say wide headlight that's kind of squished down
03:33a smaller version of a road glide you know yeah yeah very much like you know so um it's got all
03:44the tech that a uh you would expect out of an adventure bike you've got lean sensitive charge
03:49control and abs you've got uh drag torque control which is like uh using the the throttle and the
03:56ignition to act as a slipper clutch uh when it when the slipper clutch doesn't work anymore because the
04:02roads are so slick or the gravel so slick or whatever so it keeps the rear rear end from
04:06locking up it's got wheelie control it's got combined braking and it was the first to have
04:11adaptive ride height it was the first bike to lower itself when you when you stopped which
04:16to me still like boggles my mind that um someone hadn't thought of it first and they were the first
04:23yeah in in the adventure category they were like the innovators yeah that's yeah it's like
04:28it just blows me it's like duh like you know all these bikes are have such tall seat heights as
04:34adventure bikes because you need the ground clearance you need the suspension and this makes
04:38it you know easier to get it on and off of yeah and there's there's isn't just when you stop right
04:44it's when you get under a certain mile per hour under a certain speed it'll come down yeah and you
04:49can you can lock it out you can change the parameters a little bit to how it how it activates
04:55well i'm just saying like if you were in something you know tricky you you lowers the seat height so
05:01you can touch like if say for instance you're in sand and you need to dab you're you're probably going
05:07slow enough that that it's settled down the seat is settled down yeah very much so more and you
05:13don't you don't notice it when it does it either that's the interesting part is you really don't feel
05:18the change in the bike's attitude at all which is pretty cool so and then once you get going again
05:24once you crest a certain speed i can't remember what it is 25 30 miles an hour something like
05:30that it raises back up automatically yeah so really cool uh really cool thing so um it runs kind of
05:37adventure normal wheel sizes 1917 on the special on the cbo and then 17 inch wheels on the st which is
05:46the the street focused one uh they just you know they just added to the lineup so um i don't know it's
05:52very much a real adventure motorcycle uh i think it's got everything that you would want minus maybe
05:59adaptive cruise control and all the radar stuff but i i'm assuming that the next iteration of
06:05the bike will have all that stuff because yeah and plus it has all the all the available accessories
06:11you would want for your adventure buying soft cases hard cases you know skid plate hand guards all that
06:17stuff it's got high seats low seat you know all that stuff so i guess now they have a a single
06:23a one-piece seat option yep so you know all over all around it's it's a very very much uh um
06:34adventure motorcycle and it's got an all-new engine in it which is um the revolution max 1250
06:41uh they also have revolution max 975 975 in the nightster um so the 1250 is used in uh the panamerica
06:53and in the sportster um but the little bit different tune in both the bikes uh in the
06:59panamerica makes 150 horsepower at 95 pound feet of torque that's those are claimed numbers from marley
07:06davidson um it's a dual overhead liquid cooled four valve 60 degree v-twin with vvt on both the
07:14intake and exhaust cams um which is is pretty cool as well um i think the sportster only gets it on
07:24the intake if i remember right or maybe that's the nightster maybe the 975 only has it on
07:30the motor's got all of the features you would expect on a on a premium adventure bike it really
07:38does um and it's got some stuff that other ones don't um it's got a hydraulic valve uh lash
07:44adjustment just like on all their their big big twins and stuff so there's no valve clearance checks
07:50there it's always got the right correct clearance so um overall i really really like that engine
07:57what about you heat do you like that engine uh yeah yeah it's okay for sure you know it's nice
08:03it's got you know revs kind of fast and has that signature harley davidson you know character and
08:09exhaust note which is neat but you know in a more modern liquid cooled you know power plant which is
08:15cool you know i think harley davidson did a okay job of you know appeasing the harley davidson purist but
08:22finally giving you know the the modern motorcycle rider you know some contemporary performance
08:28yeah i would say you know down low it definitely has the the harley-ish um feel to it or sound and
08:35then when you rev it out it becomes it feels very european to me yeah it feels like a ktm lc4 it um you
08:45know or lc8 i should say it just feels really really sporty and it revs and it feels modern it feels
08:53wholly modern when you're on the gas mm-hmm yeah yeah good on good on harley davidson for having
09:00the huevos to make the investment for this thing that's that was that was a big i guess you would say
09:09gamble but you know that they sort of had to make but yeah none of them for doing such a good job yeah
09:15they definitely had to make they had to modernize harley's uh offerings a bit you know so sportster
09:24pan america nightster um all those things add to that um definitely not not for the traditional harley
09:33owner except that they are because it was a very successful launch of that bike it was actually the
09:40best-selling adventure motorcycle for a few months when it first came out which is saying a lot because
09:47bmw's gs is a sales machine like bmw doesn't even have to have a full lineup they just had the gs
09:56they would still do better than some other manufacturers yeah so um that did really really
10:05well um and people you know people moved from other they had conquest sales they had people that
10:13bought from outside of um harley davidson but then they also had the harley davidson faithful
10:19buying the bikes too they were like oh man i i own a gs along with my road glide now i can have a road
10:25glide and i can have a panamerican so it makes a lot of sense to for harley davidson do it because
10:31they realized that there are a lot of owners that own multiple bikes and if they have a harley they
10:37may buy a harley in other segments yeah and probably looking to bring in a even just slightly younger
10:46buyer yeah yeah very much yeah or something a little more sporty a little more utilitarian you know
10:53yeah exactly so let's talk about like um writing impressions and whether we like it or not let's
11:02let's start off with adam let's let's give let's hear your feelings on the pan america
11:07yeah i think it's it's it's okay for a harley davidson adventure bike you know it's you know not my
11:13favorite adventure bike but you know for harley davidson's first shot at it you know it's an okay offering
11:18okay about you jeff i i guess i have a little bit stronger feelings and why you know i'm i'm like
11:26what's not to like i i think it's i think it's a really nice adventure bike i mean and adventure bikes
11:31are they can be so different right you have touring adventure you have like serious off-road adventure
11:37but i i think this thing it i think it does both fairly well it to me it says it's as if a bmw
11:48like you're comparing it to bmw so it's as if the bmw and the ktm you know got together and had a baby
11:55in some ways it reminds me of the ktm in some ways it reminds me of the bmw which
12:01i don't know this but i would think that that would be a target for harley you know yeah i mean that's the
12:06that's the hard part for harley is like where do they position this and what do they target um
12:12so you know i think i appreciate the rider aids that it has i have i i uh like i said i like the
12:20styling as far as the riding it i like it in the in the sitting position standing position it's
12:28fairly narrow and i wear usually i wear knee braces when i ride adventure bikes because you know there's
12:33always off-road options and uh some bikes you really notice the width with the knee braces and
12:42less so i think on the pan america yeah i agree it's it's actually a very slim feeling bike because
12:48of that kind of traditional shaped tank right and so this big boxy thing that a lot of adventure
12:56bikes covered in plastic yeah yeah and and so that right there makes it feel slim and i do the same
13:03thing i wear knee braces most of the time when i'm riding an adventure motorcycle and um it definitely
13:10that helps a lot it's got good ergonomics um it's got some options where you can get risers for the
13:15handlebars and a few other things and so um but overall it's very good the way it is um and i really like
13:24like it's easy to toss around like it's a big motorcycle it's a big bore adb but um the handlebar
13:33width and shape and the slimness of the tank really allows you to like throw your knee into the tank and
13:40really move the bike around really easily um and sometimes it feels a little bit lighter um that is
13:46it doesn't feel as massive as some of the other bikes like a gs well when it came out it was against
13:53the gs 1250 and it felt a lot smaller than the gs 1250. um the uh the engine i think is really really
14:02nice um it puts power to the ground really well and that lets it slide around power you know power
14:09line roads and gravel roads like you can really slide the bike really nice it has a really nice balance
14:14um and being able to really control that rear tire um so overall i think it was a really good first
14:20effort and it was one of my favorite bikes when it came out in in 2021 um you know everyone's kind
14:29of moved on since 2021 so um you know the the gs 1300 r 1300 gs multi strata tiger um and even the ktm
14:41have all got updates since that kind of up the game a little bit so i think it's time for um for harley
14:46davidson to respond and bring bring the level up a little bit more on their bike uh i think um you
14:54know the semi-active suspension on it is pretty nice but i do think it maybe needs a little more
15:00suspension travel it's got seven and a half inches on both ends um and since you have that adaptive
15:05ride height why not just make it longer travel because you can lower the bike anyways instead of
15:10lowering the bike an inch and a half or whatever it is let the bike lower two and a half inches or
15:15something you know and and give us that extra travel and ground clearance when we need it as
15:21an adventure bike um and then it can still lower itself down when you need it but overall i think
15:29it's a i think it's a great adv bike and if you're shopping for adv bikes you should absolutely go check
15:37one out i think um it is very much a um an alternative to all the all the other big adventure motorcycles
15:45that we we talk about here yeah certain unique being that it's you know it's such a uh a new
15:52motorcycle but it it also has a huge dealer network you know yep yeah for sure it does have a huge dealer
16:00network and i will say like the first um couple of years they did have to work out a few kinks
16:07right um they had some charging and battery issues um which with 2024 on is supposedly solved um a lot
16:17of people just put lithium batteries in their bike and it helped the problem with like low battery
16:22voltage after it sat for a while so like parasitic draw from all the electronics um made it like hard
16:27starting or screwed up the display there's a few problems so um but uh as of now it seems all those
16:36are are all those are are sorted and so that's that's nice so but um yeah overall i think it was a
16:46i think it's a great great bike um for what it is 20 grand for the the special they don't really have
16:52the base model anymore um so starts at 20 grand but obviously it goes up from there if you change
16:57the buildings and it's not cheap no it's not cheap not cheap but but it's not um it's not out of hand
17:05in the the big adventure bike no segment right i remember when it when it came out it also there was
17:12priced below i think below the bmw and just slightly above the kpm yeah it was kind of in the middle there
17:20yeah so obviously inflation is is driven at prices a little bit unaffected by tariffs yeah yeah well
17:30there are i'm sure not all the parts on that thing are american made but um i knew they i know they do
17:35use a lot of suppliers nearby uh milwaukee so um you know anyway um i have a funny story about
17:46this bike um and that we actually had an effect before the bike came out on the design of this
17:54motorcycle so um yeah so in 2018 they teased this bike they put out this video and it showed it in
18:04a prototype testing and and so i went frame by frame for the video and like basically pointed out okay the
18:13engine looks like it's you know this many degrees and it looks like this and it looks like it's got
18:17the suspension this type of wheel this you know bubble and i just went through and kind of like
18:23made my predictions on what what the pan america will be and i i wrote my article that looks heavy
18:29um and that if uh if it came in my article i wrote if if this thing weighs less than 550 pounds i will buy
18:38all of the harley davidson engineering and design staff pizza and beer and um so then we come around
18:44to 2021 it's the press launch they have their powerpoint presentation going and the screen comes
18:51up and it says dry weight for this is for the base model not the special but there was a base model
18:56at that time um and it said 535 pounds does you owe us pizza and beer right in the presentation right
19:05in the harley guy yeah in the presentation for the press launch and so i was like oh geez so we stuck to
19:12it and we bought pizza and beer for like 400 people in milwaukee and had a pizza party um i stuck i stuck
19:20stuck to my my challenge and we we paid up it was it cost us like 15 grand for pizza and beer but
19:27did you get to throw that on the expense account we threw an expense account it did not come out of
19:31my own pocket but uh i was dissuaded from making challenges like that in the future
19:38we got you this time but not yeah yeah yeah we'll cover this one but not next time
19:43so but it was cool like they they they took the the that article and printed it out the the
19:50lead of the the project printed it out for every engineer and went to everyone's desk and put it
19:56on their desk and they all pinned it up in their cubicle and every one of them worked on removing
20:01weight from whatever they were working on in order to get it less than 550 because before it was going
20:07to be more so it's cool we had an effect on on on the bike um that's media doing its job yeah yeah
20:15helping to improve the product yeah we improved the product before it even came out
20:20so that was a pretty pretty fun story and then we printed out like a little like magazine with
20:24all our articles about the bike and yeah it was it was really fun it was good to meet all the people
20:29that did it and they were all like yeah thanks for doing that you know like one guy was telling me about
20:33like the the gear on the back of the clutch basket for the starter like it was a solid piece of
20:40of aluminum and then he went through and like removed all this weight and made it look like uh
20:45you know uh what do you call it like grandma's doily for you know uh like you know he removed
20:52all this material and everyone did that holes in it yep added more like the world uh editor dirt bike
21:00editor ron greyer he used to say he put he put holes in everything back in the day he would always say
21:05there's nothing lighter than a hole this is true yeah i had more lightness in the way of lotus so
21:13um anyway i think um you know that was that's a fun story so um having us all ridden the bike and
21:20we all seem to like it in in some form what would you like to see from harley davidson to make this
21:27bike better because obviously it's time for it let's let's give them a challenge again we're not
21:32going to buy him pizza and beer but let's give them a challenge to improve the this bike and maybe
21:38they'll listen to us so jeff what do you what do you want to see out of the well i could see them
21:44expanding the lineup like they do with you know all of their other models you know different options
21:49different you know accessories uh like for instance a version with an 1821 so you could have you know
21:58additional tire choices um that'd be neat you know that kind of that sort of thing maybe even like a real
22:07uh i don't know if stripped down is the right word but a stripped down version that's very off-road
22:13you know and even like like ktm maybe even a uh uh a version with the smaller motor with the with the max
22:24975 you know sort of a mid if that if you could say that a mid-size adventure bike
22:33you know maybe that would be maybe that would be the thing with the 975 and then in the 1821
22:38you know sort of a that'd be cool lighter bike yeah adventure bike yeah yep that's a really cool
22:47idea adam about you yeah i think what jeff just said is a great idea you know maybe a slim down
22:54i mean it's going to be a harley davidson so it's never going to be like tenary slim but just a slim
23:00down with another pizza party you know i think a slim down 975 you know middleweight plus size
23:08adventure bike would be cool that'd be a cool variation you know the something with the it's
23:13going to be hard to do the 21 inch 18 inch wheel combo with that chassis configuration i'm sure but
23:20that would be cool you know i know they're making that st the 17 inch variation which is cool you know
23:26even like uh a more like not hardcore sport like road sport but yeah like it did almost an adventure
23:34sport like real precisely made adventure sport that would be a cool variation you know kind of like
23:41they could go as wild as having you know ducati pike's peak you know pike's peak just super high
23:47end like just road sport to the max like honestly that would be a good little niche for harley davidson
23:53to to own that you know especially with like their their their competition street legal competition
23:59baggers like they have they have that technology they have those components obviously it's in touring
24:05uh configuration but you know they'd be cool to you know kind of narrowing on that segment and
24:10in theory they could potentially own that segment yeah i mean they they race the hooligan
24:15class with the pan america right so excuse me so it was a flat track uh uh uh
24:23adventure flat track that too but like i really like he's idea of like an an st we'll call it an str
24:31right yeah str yep yep perfect you know and it's just done to the to the max and it's a special model
24:38that you know is more expensive and has a high margin for harley but really ups that that's that thing to
24:45where you would buy one and go take it to a track day and not have to change anything i think that'd be
24:51really fun um and then of course they could even go ahead oh they could do it boutique boutique style
24:59like they do with their that their that that harley davidson rr a hundred thousand dollar bagger
25:05like they could just make a limited run of those really high-end bikes lots of carbon fiber you know
25:10some titanium things here and there and yeah huge huge margins limited edition stamp the tank yeah they
25:17that would that would be cool it'd be super sick i think that would that would be killer but i'd also
25:21like to see a off-road or model like jeff's talking about and you're you know lighter 21 and 18 longer
25:29travel um you know it may not be it may not be what harley people are looking for but people outside of
25:39harley may step into the brand for something like that you know i think a 975 engine would be
25:44suitable um you don't need a ton of power um for something that's more off-road focused you know
25:51like 100 horsepower is plenty for an offer it's like for super off-roady adventure motorcycle
25:59and you just make a longer travel and slim it up a little bit more and um yeah i think it'd be
26:05killer you might get the eye of a ktm uh buyer you really could you know you really might so um
26:13i think we're all especially if they lean into like the american manufacturing american manufacturing
26:20you know like sometimes they lean into that sometimes they don't but if they you know could
26:24make a bigger point of that especially in today's you know american-centric society
26:30or more american-centric society that would be that would be cool yep very much so so um
26:38yeah i think we're all kind of aligned on what we'd like to see so harley if you're listening
26:42do it we may buy you pizza
26:47depends you make a you make an str all right maybe we'll buy you pizza
26:51an off-road rr i'll bust out the credit card um so uh anything else you guys want to add on
27:00on the pan america before we we wrap this thing up honestly you guys got me excited just those two
27:07variations that would be really cool it would be cool i'm happy to see them break out of the mold and
27:14you know and do something and have it work out well for them you know yeah they've tried some stuff
27:19some of it seems sometimes it's it has seemed uh
27:27sort of uh not fully on board i guess is what i'm not fully committed fully realized yeah yeah
27:36i think this bike though like i think it really does show that um you know harley davidson proved
27:43they can build other things besides chromed out cruisers and big baggers like you know it's
27:49it's a huge company with a huge engineering know-how and it can do what it wants um but it also
27:58likes to stick to what's safe sometimes and um i think the stepping out to the adventure bike was not
28:04a fully safe move for them and but it gave them the ability to to show off their technical know-how and
28:11their engineering prowess and they did it i mean it was it was picked by you know some of us as the
28:18best adventure bike for 2021 um because it it did trounce a lot of the the current machines on the market
28:27so um you know while it's still harley it's a real adv it's competitive in the class um but it's probably
28:36time for a refresh um which i'm sure we'll see soon and then um i think the last thing i'll say about it
28:43is don't knock it until you try it because it's actually really really good yeah yep so yeah that's
28:52going to be it for us yep that's going to be it for us we're uh we're big fans of pan america
28:56thanks for listening we appreciate the support hit that like button um subscribe if you haven't um and
29:03put your comments down below let us know what you think about the pan america um if you think it's a
29:08real adventure bike and what would you like to see harley uh change for the next uh the next update for
29:15that motorcycle thanks for listening we'll see you on the next episode
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