- 4 months ago
Twenty years after moving to Moscow on assignment for TIME, journalist Jerry Schecter and his family return to renew friendships and explore the USSR under glasnost.
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00:01Funding for Frontline is provided by this station and other public television stations nationwide
00:07and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
00:20Tonight on Frontline, today's Soviet Union.
00:27How much are things changing?
00:30A look at that question with an American family who lived in Moscow 20 years ago
00:35and sent their children to Soviet schools.
00:41Tonight, for the first time, they are back in the USSR.
00:53From the network of public television stations,
00:55a presentation of KCTS Seattle, WNET New York, WPBT Miami, WTVS Detroit and WGBH Boston.
01:07This is Frontline with Judy Woodruff.
01:11Good evening.
01:12Since Mikhail Gorbachev came to power in the Soviet Union three years ago this month,
01:22his public statements have been filled with promises to bring a new openness and fundamental economic change to his country.
01:30But while we have heard much from the Soviet leader about the new Russia,
01:35there have been few opportunities to hear about these changes from the Soviet people.
01:40Tonight, we travel inside the Soviet Union with an American family who lived in Moscow 20 years ago
01:48and returned last fall to search for old friends and to take some measure of the changes Gorbachev has promised.
01:57Frontline negotiated with the Soviet government to obtain unusual access to the Russian people.
02:03Our team was allowed to bypass government officials and to make its own direct contacts with Soviet citizens.
02:11In our experience, this was a first.
02:15The result is an intimate, candid, and revealing portrait of the Soviet people we met,
02:22openly discussing the horrors of their past, the realities of today, and their hopes and fears for the future.
02:31Our program was produced by Sherry Jones and photographed by Foster Wiley.
02:37It is called Back in the USSR.
02:41They were once called an American family in Moscow.
02:58That was 20 years ago, when Jerry Schechter was the Moscow bureau chief for Time magazine,
03:04and he and his wife Leona and their five children lived for two years in the Soviet Union.
03:10Where are you?
03:11I'm not in the picture.
03:12How come?
03:13I don't know.
03:14His dad's signature in Russian.
03:16Really?
03:17Yeah.
03:18Can you read it?
03:19Together, they wove their stories into a book about life there.
03:23This year, they decided to go back.
03:26It's great to be together with you all.
03:29Let's have fun, huh?
03:31Yeah.
03:32Oh man.
03:33Oh man.
03:34That's so I can't wait for it.
03:36You don't know?
03:38Yeah.
03:39I can't wait for it.
03:40A little funny.
03:41Even if he can do it, he's a little naughty, but he's a good teacher.
03:46I'm not good!
03:47He's a little naughty!
04:18When the Schecter family was here 20 years ago, they wrote that Moscow was the living past.
04:42They called it a stagnant society that did not change.
04:48Today, it is the Soviet Union of Mikhail Gorbachev, and they have come to find old friends, visit
04:56familiar places, to see for themselves if it's different, if things have changed.
05:02For three months, they'll be back in the USSR.
05:07I carry these things all the way from New York.
05:29When they lived in Moscow before, Jerry and Leona chose to live in an apartment away from
05:40the American enclave.
05:42They sent their children to Russian schools.
05:45Those experiences were at the heart of their book.
05:47Steve was 11 then.
05:52His sister, Evelyn, was 13.
05:55Their brother, Barney, was 5.
05:58Doveen was 7.
06:00And Kate was 9.
06:03Now, along with Kate's husband, Ari, and their other spouses, the entire family has come back
06:08to write the sequel.
06:09Headquarters will be the Hotel Berlin, just off Durczynski Square.
06:16There's no such thing as a telephone book here, but by tracking down old friends among
06:21the city's journalists, intellectuals, artists, and writers, they set to work.
06:28They assume certain rules haven't changed in 20 years, that even their old friends will
06:37distrust any new contacts they might make, that protecting some of those friends means
06:43phone calls still have to be made from the street.
06:45And because Soviets are still not allowed in hotels where foreigners are housed, the Schechter
06:53family must go out to meet people, and compare the life here today with their experience of
06:5920 years ago.
07:00Attending this school had been one experience that was uniquely theirs.
07:26The Schechters were the only Americans in any Russian school.
07:30Special school 47, special because the students are taught English beginning in the second
07:36grade.
07:39They had worn exactly the same uniforms, walked the very same halls.
07:46I went to first grade here too.
07:48I went here when I was little.
07:49They had listened to history lessons that glorified the Soviet Union and criticized the United States.
08:17And their mother had written that in this Soviet school, her children were never allowed to ask questions or argue.
08:243, 4, 7, 8, 7, 1, 8, 2, and 6.
08:332, 4, 2, 2, 4.
08:342, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4.
08:352, 4, 6, 4.
08:362, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10.
08:37The 3, Suchodolov, is the same?
08:40The painting is the same, 12.
08:44Okay, 12. Sit down.
08:49The question is about which part of the talk is?
08:52I do not hear.
09:00I recognize you.
09:07I remember you were in the same class as Misha Yorubinsky.
09:14He's also gotten so big now and has two children.
09:31It's amazing.
09:33I mean, she smells her warmth and the way she's giving me a big wet kiss.
09:37You know, when I cleaned up the class after,
09:41I remember, I thought, you know,
09:43I used to argue with my, Liana, I think.
09:48She was my, we were cleaning up the class together,
09:51and she would say,
09:52America's do this bad, they do that bad.
09:56It's like, oh, there's so much racism there,
09:59and you're just a slave to the capitalist.
10:01She used to tell me all these kind of things.
10:04I think it's changed since then, no?
10:07That was a long time ago.
10:08Americans are so very happy, you know,
10:11you can always talk with them about anything you wish.
10:16And I think Russians are too...
10:20Uncanny!
10:22Communicative!
10:23Not sound communicative,
10:25but it's rather difficult to communicate with a Russian on the street,
10:30because maybe, you know...
10:32Well, on the street, people have, you know, certain ideas,
10:38the right way and the wrong way.
10:39The wrong way?
10:40Oh, in America, it's much more free-flowing.
10:44It's a critique of our press.
10:46Well, some years ago,
10:48they wrote only, well,
10:49the best thing is only politics about America,
10:51and now we just read about life in America.
10:55For example, all American children work,
10:59they sell ice cream or hot dogs or something else.
11:02Uh-huh, it's true.
11:04We need money in summertime, even...
11:09Not only in summertime.
11:10Yeah, we want to work in summertime.
11:13You see, we were afraid for sometimes to speak openly,
11:16and now we are not afraid.
11:18You see, we became more communicated.
11:22So when do you think that started?
11:24Uh, sorry.
11:25When do you think that change started?
11:28Maybe two years ago.
11:29Two or three years ago.
11:30You feel it yourself, right?
11:32Yes.
11:32In the last three years,
11:48Mikhail Gorbachev has launched an immense experiment
11:51in the Soviet Union,
11:53trying to move a country of 280 million people
11:56who, in only 70 years,
11:58have lived through revolution,
12:00civil war,
12:01invasion,
12:02famine,
12:03Stalin's purges.
12:08It is a country beset with problems.
12:11Gorbachev's actions are fueled by that,
12:14by the need to revive a society
12:17numbed by so many years of totalitarian rule.
12:28The changes are happening,
12:30he tells them,
12:31though not as fast as we might want,
12:34because it can't all happen at once.
12:36The very consciousness of people has changed.
12:53It has changed so that people are more willing to make real decisions.
12:57They are freer and, without a doubt, more enthusiastic.
13:06Twenty years ago, they couldn't have had these conversations.
13:10Today, everyone talks about two things.
13:13Perestroika, economic changes that will affect the way they work and live.
13:17And glasnost, a new openness.
13:20You say everything you think, so forthrightly.
13:24If you had a conversation like this in America,
13:27would anyone get angry with you?
13:30They wouldn't.
13:31We can say what we want,
13:35even if Reagan doesn't agree with us.
13:40That's democracy for you.
13:46Wonderful.
13:49We have perestroika now.
13:51We're trying to make life better and better,
13:54so that someday we can live like you.
13:56Many young people have already carved out a life that seems familiar.
14:23like the crowd at this unofficial fashion show.
14:41Forget New York.
14:42Forget Paris.
14:43We're going to India.
14:47Doveen shares their interest in fashion.
14:50They are always eager to make contact with anyone from the West.
14:57They are mostly the children of party members,
14:59and therefore privileged,
15:01though they are not party members themselves.
15:04Do you think that if it was different here,
15:07like it is in America,
15:08where you can be active in politics as a young person,
15:10would you be active here?
15:12Would you?
15:12Sure, you could be politically active,
15:19but nobody wants to.
15:20What does it mean to be politically active?
15:26What does it mean?
15:27Well, there's lots of different things you can do.
15:29You can have demonstrations,
15:31you can write letters,
15:32you can write petitions,
15:33you can write to the congressman.
15:34I want the borders to be open
15:36so we can travel to see all our friends.
15:40That's my only wish.
15:41I think that if the borders were open
15:45and you came to a party in New York
15:47or you spent a week with me and my friends
15:49and you came back here,
15:50there would be a revolution
15:51because you would see how different it is
15:55what you can say,
15:56where you can go,
15:57how you can live.
15:58It's so different.
15:59We understand that
16:03and sometimes we get angry about it.
16:08We have to imagine the whole world
16:10like a fairy tale,
16:12an ideal.
16:14But the Americans,
16:15what do they have?
16:16They travel,
16:18see things,
16:18so what?
16:19What are you saying?
16:20I'm saying that we have
16:21a lot of people.
16:23We have a lot of people.
16:26He's trying to say that
16:27when we sit there
16:30and watch TV
16:31and we see how people live in Italy.
16:33When you watch TV
16:34and then the next day
16:36if you want to go to Italy,
16:38you just go to Italy
16:39and you have nothing to worry about.
16:42You have no dreams.
16:45There's no miracles in your life.
16:51It's a time in Moscow
16:52when everyone seems to have an opinion
16:54about what's going on.
16:56Through an American friend,
16:58they find Sasha,
17:00an underground artist
17:01whose work has been shown
17:02in the United States.
17:09Skeptical of the promises
17:10of Glasnost and change,
17:12he and his wife
17:13even kept their daughter
17:14out of the state kindergarten.
17:17We want her to be a normal person
17:19without the influence
17:21and opinions
17:22of the official dialogue.
17:23We're her parents.
17:26We love her more
17:27than the government does,
17:28so we look after her.
17:33Now we have a problem
17:35that arose
17:36from her first day
17:37of first grade.
17:43She came home
17:44and said that
17:44in the first lesson of peace,
17:46the teacher cursed America
17:48and said America
17:49drops atom bombs
17:50and wants war.
17:53For Lisa,
17:54this was very surprising
17:55because we have
17:57many American friends
17:58and she loves them
17:59and they love her.
18:01It was very hard for her.
18:02Did you think
18:10that it was dangerous
18:11or not?
18:13That we kept her
18:14out of kindergarten?
18:18You're not worried about it?
18:21Of course we were.
18:23When she went to first grade,
18:24it was for us
18:25a serious trial
18:26because we don't have
18:28good memories
18:29of our own school experience.
18:32She said now
18:33she's scared
18:33to go to school tomorrow
18:35because they will
18:36ask her about today.
18:39What will you tell them tomorrow?
18:43If they start to ask me,
18:45I will just say
18:45people came to see us,
18:47but they weren't Americans.
18:49They were just people
18:49who came from another place.
18:54Just friends, right?
18:56Just daddy's friends.
18:59And then it'll be clear
19:02who daddy's friends are.
19:06The cat also wants
19:07to say something.
19:08What does Sarah want to say?
19:10Sarah wants to say
19:11that she also knows
19:16what school means.
19:17Tell them, Sarah,
19:18you have to be careful
19:19in school.
19:20You shouldn't spread
19:21any family secrets.
19:22There's nothing
19:22on the side
19:23of family secrets.
19:29This is a country
19:37of keeping secrets
19:38and for some
19:39the strain
19:40of living hidden lives
19:41eventually leads
19:43to the decision
19:43to emigrate.
19:44Our decision to live
19:47of course protest
19:49of style of life here.
19:52It is atmosphere
19:53of double thinking
19:55and constant life.
19:57And we tried to live
20:01our own way
20:04and we didn't want
20:06to participate
20:08in the style of life.
20:11And so we brought up
20:12our daughter
20:14in another way,
20:16of course.
20:16never lie,
20:19never double thinking
20:20and it was very hard.
20:23For them,
20:24it's been even harder
20:25in the 30 years
20:26since Khrushchev
20:27relaxed censorship
20:28and allowed freer debate
20:29because he also
20:31provided a glimpse
20:32then of a different
20:33kind of life.
20:36We are people
20:37who live through
20:38Khrushchev's times
20:39and we see much
20:40in common
20:41between what Gorbachev
20:42is doing now
20:43and what Khrushchev
20:44did in his time.
20:45even though this
20:46is a new cycle.
20:48They've seen things
20:49turn around before.
20:51When Khrushchev
20:51came under fire,
20:52the first to suffer
20:53were the intellectuals
20:55who had bought into
20:55his promises of change.
21:00Everyone who wants
21:02the changes to continue
21:03is afraid that they won't.
21:07People of our generation
21:09are much more afraid
21:10of that than the young people are
21:12because they didn't see
21:14what we saw.
21:15when everything
21:15was shut down before.
21:18All thoughtful people
21:19hope Perestroika
21:20won't stop.
21:22They're afraid.
21:24People our age
21:25live through the disappointment
21:26of Khrushchev's times.
21:29It was a time
21:29of bitter disappointment.
21:30Khrushchev was the last
21:39to attempt significant reform
21:41here, so it remains
21:42a society rigidly controlled
21:44from where they can travel
21:46to where they can live.
21:48For many, less freedom
21:49is a trade for the certainty
21:51that the system
21:51will find them a place,
21:53provide a job.
21:54But the economy is failing.
22:01Even 20 years ago,
22:03the most efficient producers
22:05were the few private owners
22:06who were allowed to operate,
22:08like those who sell
22:09at Moscow's central market.
22:11By promoting this sort
22:18of profit and competition,
22:20Gorbachev promises
22:21to cure an economy
22:22that yields shortages
22:23and long lines.
22:25I would say that nobody says
22:28that Perestroika
22:29is unnecessary.
22:31Everyone agrees
22:32that this is a very important
22:34stage in the life
22:35of our country.
22:36Vladimir Nadelyan
22:38is editor of the
22:39letters department
22:40of the newspaper
22:41Izvestia,
22:42where he receives
22:437,000 letters
22:44every week.
22:46In a country
22:47with no public opinion polls,
22:49it's a way to understand
22:50people's hopes
22:51as well as their fears.
22:53Today my column
22:54is about
22:56personal desire
22:59to take part
23:00in the process
23:02of Perestroika.
23:02And about fear
23:04of some kind of people.
23:06He says,
23:07for example,
23:08can you guarantee
23:09that one day
23:12you will not be
23:14published
23:16as anti-Leninist
23:18and they will
23:21remember
23:22who wrote
23:24who criticised
23:25and so on.
23:26Can you give
23:27such a guarantee?
23:28No, you cannot.
23:30So we feel fear.
23:31In such decisive moments
23:33in history
23:34of any country,
23:35especially
23:35in the history
23:37of this country,
23:38it is natural,
23:39I think.
23:40in our society
23:43we have this
23:44kind of built-in mechanism.
23:46Namely,
23:47every four years
23:48if you don't like
23:49the leader,
23:50you change him.
23:51No, no.
23:51It's a change
23:53of a leader
23:54in the White House.
23:55We are talking
23:57now about
23:58the deep
23:59fundamental changes
24:01in the society.
24:02It's quite different.
24:03The fear of change
24:05is deeply rooted.
24:07Gorbachev relies
24:08on journalists
24:08like these top editors
24:10of his Vestia
24:11to press the need
24:12for reform
24:13and open the way
24:14for a more honest
24:15discussion
24:16of the country's problems.
24:17And we now
24:18are trying
24:21to do our best
24:22to make the same
24:25mechanism
24:26in our country.
24:27Not the same
24:28as you have,
24:29of course.
24:30Not the same
24:30but built-in.
24:31And it may be found
24:33only on democracy.
24:35Sometimes
24:35you are even ahead
24:36of you.
24:38You need four years
24:39to change a leader.
24:40We need just one hour
24:41sometimes.
24:43Our people
24:44perhaps
24:44has got
24:46much less
24:47of material goods
24:49than yours.
24:50But
24:50they have
24:51a lot of
24:52guarantees
24:53such as
24:54the right
24:55to work,
24:57the right
24:57to have a house.
25:00And
25:01this is,
25:03you know,
25:03what we are
25:04accustomed to.
25:06You are
25:06opportunists.
25:08You look
25:08a place
25:10in which
25:10you can
25:11realize
25:12your potentials
25:13better,
25:14earn better
25:15and live better.
25:17And that's
25:17why you gamble.
25:19We don't gamble.
25:20But I think
25:20I disagree
25:21with this.
25:23The first thing
25:23we have some
25:24restrictions,
25:26for example,
25:27to live
25:27in every city
25:28you want
25:29named
25:30as
25:30прописка.
25:31It's not
25:32under the
25:33constitution.
25:33It's against
25:34our constitution.
25:35We must
25:36get rid of this.
25:37We must do
25:37something with
25:38this прописка.
25:39It prevents
25:40us from
25:42going from
25:42one city
25:43to another,
25:43from one
25:44region to another.
25:45Why is it
25:47so difficult
25:47to get rid
25:48of this?
25:49People here
25:49receive living
25:50quarters for
25:50free.
25:53It's not
25:53as though
25:54if I have
25:54money I can
25:55move to a
25:55different city
25:56and buy
25:56myself a
25:57place to
25:57live.
26:00At
26:00factories
26:01there are
26:01waiting lists
26:02for apartments.
26:03If I came
26:04to a factory
26:04and bought
26:05myself an
26:05apartment I'd
26:06disturb the
26:07whole order
26:07of things.
26:09If I buy
26:10an apartment
26:11with money
26:11then another
26:12person can't
26:13get it for
26:13free.
26:15It's
26:16manifestation
26:17of our
26:18economic
26:18shortcomings.
26:20No,
26:21it's
26:21manifestation
26:22of the
26:23way
26:23how we
26:24distribute
26:25how we
26:28distribute
26:29all we
26:30have.
26:31The
26:31way
26:32of
26:32distribution
26:33of
26:33flats
26:34of
26:34compartment
26:35I think
26:36is wrong.
26:38Principally
26:38wrong.
26:38And
26:39this
26:39situation
26:41we call
26:41it
26:41when
26:42you
26:43work
26:44bad
26:45and
26:46I
26:46work
26:47good
26:50and
26:51we
26:51have
26:51the
26:51same
26:51salary.
26:53Where
26:53is my
26:54incentive?
26:55We must
26:56honestly
26:56admit that
26:57there are
26:57people
26:57who say
26:58let me
26:59live
26:59worse
26:59but
27:00don't
27:00let him
27:01live
27:01any
27:01better.
27:01lives
27:02better.
27:02He
27:02lives
27:03better.
27:03Not
27:04of
27:04problems
27:04but
27:05otherwise
27:06it would
27:07be done.
27:07It's
27:08impossible
27:08you see
27:09from the
27:09womb
27:10of your
27:10mother
27:10make a
27:12jump
27:13and
27:13start
27:14to build
27:14a new
27:15society
27:15and
27:16we
27:17tried
27:18to
27:18do
27:19it.
27:19See
27:20we
27:20tried
27:21to
27:21be
27:21clever
27:22by
27:22half.
27:23We
27:24said
27:24we
27:24can
27:24quicken
27:25the
27:25historical
27:26development
27:26because
27:28of
27:28the
27:28introduction
27:29of
27:29socialism
27:30and
27:31we
27:31will
27:31skip
27:32all
27:32these
27:32difficulties
27:33which
27:33capitalism
27:34had.
27:35Now
27:35we
27:36are
27:36witnessing
27:36our
27:37mistakes
27:38and
27:39our
27:39expectations
27:40were
27:40too
27:40great
27:41and
27:41unjustified
27:43and
27:43sometimes
27:44we
27:44have
27:44to
27:44retreat
27:44and
27:46to
27:46start
27:46from
27:47scratch.
27:51It
27:52means
27:52that
27:52you
27:53can
27:53find
27:54hundred
27:55other
27:59explanations
27:59which
28:00are
28:00as
28:00best
28:00as
28:01mine.
28:06Twenty
28:07years
28:07ago
28:07people
28:08were
28:08arrested
28:08for
28:09saying
28:09what's
28:09now
28:10published
28:10and
28:11sold
28:11at
28:11every
28:11news
28:12stand.
28:13The
28:13system
28:13itself
28:14has
28:14become
28:14the
28:15issue.
28:16But
28:16why
28:16now?
28:18Is
28:18it
28:18all
28:18because
28:18of
28:19Gorbachev
28:19or has
28:20something
28:21been
28:21building
28:21over
28:21the
28:22years
28:22among
28:23some
28:23of
28:23the
28:23people
28:24themselves?
28:31They
28:31were
28:31the
28:32family's
28:32closest
28:32friends.
28:34Two
28:34couples
28:34who
28:34dared
28:35to
28:35befriend
28:35Americans.
28:37It
28:37was
28:37the
28:37kind
28:37of
28:38intense
28:38friendship
28:39one
28:39finds
28:39here
28:40based
28:40both
28:41on
28:41honesty
28:41and
28:42humor
28:43about
28:43life
28:44and
28:44living
28:45in
28:45Moscow.
28:49The
28:49plumber
28:50said
28:50there's
28:50a
28:50hole
28:50and
28:51the
28:51hole
28:51needs
28:51to
28:51be
28:51fixed.
28:54We have
28:54to replace
28:55everything.
28:55This is bad
28:56and that's
28:57bad and
28:57that's
28:57bad and
28:58we have
28:58to throw
28:58it all
28:59out
28:59and start
28:59over.
29:01What can I do
29:04do, Ivan Petrovich?
29:05Help me, please.
29:06What can I do?
29:07I don't
29:09know.
29:11You can't
29:12fix it
29:12at all?
29:15No, it'll
29:15keep on
29:16breaking.
29:16So he
29:17says, okay,
29:17I'll try
29:18and get
29:18you the
29:18parts you
29:19need
29:19tomorrow,
29:19but
29:19certainly
29:20you
29:20realize
29:20it's
29:21not
29:21going
29:21to
29:21be
29:21easy.
29:24Don't
29:25worry, I
29:25tell him,
29:26we'll find
29:26a way
29:26of showing
29:27our
29:27gratitude.
29:31I'll
29:31come
29:31tomorrow
29:32at
29:3211.
29:32No,
29:33no,
29:3312.
29:34I have
29:34to work
29:35tomorrow.
29:35Oh,
29:36well,
29:36in that
29:36case,
29:37I don't
29:37know
29:37what
29:37to
29:37do.
29:38Okay,
29:39okay,
29:39so you
29:40sit and
29:40wait all
29:41day and
29:41skip
29:41work.
29:43If
29:43something
29:43breaks,
29:44it's
29:44a
29:44disaster.
29:48No
29:48matter
29:48how long
29:49the
29:49shopping
29:49lines,
29:50nor
29:50how
29:50small
29:50the
29:51apartment,
29:52nothing
29:52is
29:52spared
29:52when
29:53friends
29:53arrive.
29:56Dissidents
29:5620 years
29:57ago,
29:57they have
29:58good jobs
29:58now,
29:59and that
30:00is a
30:00measure
30:00of how
30:01in the
30:01years
30:02the
30:02Schecters
30:02were
30:02gone,
30:04change
30:05was
30:05already
30:05coming.
30:06Because
30:07Gorbachev
30:07was prepared
30:08in that
30:08time,
30:09and reforms
30:09were prepared
30:10at that
30:10time,
30:10and the
30:10psychology...
30:11They see
30:11themselves
30:12as the
30:12children
30:13of Khrushchev.
30:14Their
30:14fathers
30:15were the
30:15children
30:15of Stalin.
30:16People
30:16of my
30:17father's
30:18generation,
30:19when they
30:19crossed the
30:20Red Square,
30:21they didn't
30:22even,
30:23it was
30:24even not
30:24possible
30:25to look.
30:26It was
30:27not impossible,
30:28but they
30:29were feeling
30:30not comfortable.
30:31But it was
30:32better not
30:32to look.
30:33Better not
30:33to look,
30:34you see.
30:34Better not
30:35to meet
30:36foreigners.
30:37Better not
30:38to speak
30:38to them.
30:39Now,
30:40there are
30:41different ways
30:42to behave.
30:43You may
30:43choose the
30:45official career
30:46and then
30:47you will be
30:48very constrained
30:49in your behavior.
30:50But you
30:51can choose.
30:53And this
30:54is quite
30:54possible,
30:55it's not
30:55dangerous.
30:57So,
30:58we do not
30:59know the danger
31:00maybe,
31:00but I think
31:01it's not.
31:02and of course
31:04it's the
31:04different
31:05mentality
31:05I think
31:06already.
31:07But that's
31:08some progress
31:09then.
31:09Yes,
31:10of course,
31:10of course.
31:11thing
31:11is
31:12going to be
31:13who
31:13is
31:14going to be
31:15going to be
31:16having a
31:16time.
31:17There's some
31:17moving
31:17in the
31:18city
31:18and
31:20not
31:21having a
31:21rick
31:22Member
31:22to go to the
31:23way.
31:24And I
31:25have a
31:25to go.
31:25It's a
31:26way.
31:26And I
31:26have a
31:27time.
31:27You
31:28have a
31:28going to be
31:29going to be
31:29going.
31:30I
31:30have a
31:31way.
31:31I
31:31can't
31:33go.
31:33I
31:33can't
31:34go.
31:35It's
31:35going to be
32:06What one begins to understand is that glasnost did not come out of nowhere.
32:18The generation that came of age during Khrushchev's time saw the possibility of change.
32:24And though their hopes were disappointed, they weren't all destroyed.
32:28An entire intelligentsia went underground to wait.
32:36From the beginning, people with original ideas or vision have been forced to choose self-denial, prison, or exile.
32:54One of them was the painter, Marc Chagall, who fled a country whose heart and soul has often been suppressed, hidden.
33:06This year, when he would have been 100, this first retrospective brought many of his paintings home.
33:12Like Chagall, there are still Jews here for whom life is intolerable.
33:38Jadwiga and Ben Charney are two.
33:41Though their daughter has been allowed to leave, they are among the refuseniks who are still denied the necessary permission.
33:48But when I applied, they fight me.
33:50This was a very common thing for refuseniks.
33:54I don't know whether this factor or others affected me, but I got sick with cancer just a year after I had applied.
34:05We have a relative who wanted to get a job where Ben worked.
34:17His passport says that he's Russian, but he has a Jewish name, Brahmann.
34:21So the guy who wanted to hire him said, with a name like that, I'd be better off taking a Jew.
34:31We're talking about names here, and this system was so well established that my daughter was deprived of opportunities.
34:40Everything she accomplished was accomplished with such difficulty that we just couldn't live that way.
34:45What was it like at the airport when Anna was leaving?
34:54That was a very difficult time, but I'll try to tell you about it.
35:06Of course, it's been made easier because I hope that it won't last for long.
35:14It's as if there's a wall in front of you.
35:17One minute she's here, and the next minute she's somewhere beyond that wall.
35:21It's simply unnatural to separate parents and children that way.
35:32I don't want to say that I blame the Soviet government for that.
35:37Translate that Kacha.
35:39No, no.
35:40She doesn't want to say that she blames the Soviet.
35:43I don't blame the Soviet government.
35:46I can't blame the government for something that I'm happy about.
35:54I'm very happy that she left, because the life of a refuse naked, it's impossible to live that way.
36:00After eight years of trying, Anna, her husband and child, left for the United States.
36:09They've been gone just a month.
36:11It was an emotional time here for Anna Charney, because it was one of joy and pain.
36:16As you point out, she left behind in Moscow her mother and her father,
36:20who is suffering from cancer and a heart condition, and the Soviets won't let him go.
36:25It was typical enough to get Anna Charney here, and the family says the struggles and the tears were worth it in the end.
36:31I still remember the face of my father at the airport, because he was pain and happiness at the same time in his eyes.
36:42Happiness that Simer, my daughter, and I will be free in pain, because I'm sure he thought he would never see me again.
36:52We also have some mushrooms they say for tonight.
37:13That's not mushrooms now.
37:15Don't you want to try that squid?
37:16Is it canned squid?
37:17Yeah, nobody wants to eat my squid.
37:19Canned squid?
37:20Why don't you eat it yourself, Dad?
37:21Well, I need some party souls to...
37:25But people still are not sure about what's going on, don't you think?
37:31I mean, some people are speaking out, and they're taking risks, and they think that, you know, maybe that's going to...
37:38It's like the level of discourse has risen to a new level.
37:41But the ground rules are basically still the same, that you've got to watch your behind.
37:47Well, you and the friends who say that they're not worried about coming to the hotel, they still say, please meet me exactly, you know, at one o'clock downstairs, so that I don't have to be down there waiting.
38:00Well, they get harassed if you come in there.
38:02And one of the things that they have here now that we don't have, which is the reason we came here, is that there's a real excitement in the air.
38:09There's a sense of national renewal.
38:12There's a real feeling that people are trying to do something, they're trying to rebuild the country.
38:19And sure, they have problems, sure, it's a gargantuan task.
38:23But the fact is that you meet, like, the editor of Izvesti or the editor of Argan Yonk.
38:27And these guys are on fire.
38:29It's the time of their lives.
38:31And they're spreading it.
38:33And I think that's what's, that's what we don't have that they do have.
38:38I think there's a lot of cheerleading going on here.
38:40And some of it is very effective.
38:42Yeah, but that's a real cheapening of it, to say it's cheerleading.
38:46No, no, no.
38:47Dad, what if there is a backlash?
38:49That's right.
38:49They're the first ones whose heads will roll for being un-Leninist.
38:54Those people who stuck their necks out and put big slogans up in Izvestia saying,
38:59Oh, we've got to look at the past and come to grips with what really happened before,
39:03are the ones who will suffer.
39:05So you can say they're cheerleaders right now.
39:09But the other side of the coin is they're taking the risk of their very lives.
39:12I didn't mean to imply that they weren't, that it didn't take courage and bravery to be a cheerleader.
39:21Okay.
39:22Gorbachev's most loyal allies are the thinkers, writers, and dreamers.
39:31If he falls, so do they.
39:34This group is Sovromenyak Theater II, named after the first contemporary theater established in Khrushchev's time.
39:42A year ago, they were underground.
39:45Their director is Misha Yefremov, who's the son of the founder of Sovromenyak I.
39:51Everyone's afraid of one thing, that we'll all get covered up again.
39:59That already happened once, more than once.
40:03And to keep them from covering this back up, we need to push this thing that's happening now farther and farther open.
40:11Then it'll be impossible to cover it back up.
40:21They're young, they say, and determined to stretch the boundaries of glasnost.
40:28This 25-year-old play satirizes political corruption, but it also assails the people who acquiesce to a government of lies.
40:37It has never before been seen by the public.
40:39Today I found out that some young people from separate families are going to go to my brother Nestor and make a non-fulfilled conversation.
40:50This is Zaka Vardalgate.
40:51I don't know why people laugh when I appear when I wear medals I guess it's a very familiar thing
41:16because we have a joke about him about how he had an operation to make his chest bigger so he could wear more medals
41:26if someone is offended by this well that's just fantastic
41:32the people on the inside
42:01will stay just as they are with their own wishes and their own internal guilt complexes
42:07and if they say they will change they aren't telling the truth
42:31no party worker could sleep peacefully
42:49our senior roginski is a dissident historian who was sent to a labor camp five years ago
43:00he said anyone who had a high position knew that sooner later he is going to get shot
43:05then Nikita came all the time he moved all the time from place to place
43:10he changed the ministries, the buildings, the economy, the economy
43:16he had a huge перестройment for a long time
43:21he said he was always moving things around
43:24he was always restructuring
43:29right
43:32the apparaat wanted one thing and that was to sleep
43:37and then came Bresni
43:38and then came Bresni
43:39and then came Bresni
43:41and then came Bresni
43:42everybody had a great job
43:44everybody got a medal
43:45everybody got a medal
43:47everybody got a medal
43:49everyone was calm, everyone was satisfied. It was like a wonderful dreamlike kingdom.
43:58Everyone slept well. And then came Andropov. He never smiled.
44:09But the people loved Andropov. The strict father had come.
44:16Then came Chernenko. He was a real old fogey.
44:23And then came Gorbachev.
44:36And then came Gorbachev.
44:41And the most frightening thing in my life happened.
44:48I was in the camp. And there was a special room for political work where officers would tell us political information.
44:54And in this room came a giant poster of the moral code of the builders of communism.
45:04Suddenly the door opened. And in walked the drunken boss of the camp police saying, take it down.
45:10So I started to take down this poster that had hung there for over 20 years.
45:17And I said, why citizen director? And he said, it's gotten old.
45:23I said, what? He said, everything has gotten old.
45:33And I understood. There had been a revolution. Once again the apparate would not be able to sleep.
45:38They are in the tradition of patriotic dissidents here.
45:47They choose to stay. They accept the risk.
45:50The friend who owned this apartment died in prison less than a year ago.
45:55It was simply a moral position.
45:58It was simply a moral position.
46:00If I wanted to say the truth, I understood I would go to prison for it.
46:04I said it. And I went. And that's all.
46:08Sergey Kovalyev is a human rights activist who was released just this year after seven years in prison and three years in internal exile.
46:17He is still forbidden from living in Moscow.
46:23The movement was, as they sometimes say, like Don Quixote on Russian soil.
46:32And that's the right image.
46:39We've had 70 years of history.
46:41During all those 70 years there has been only one year, 1987, when not one new person under Article 70 was sent to prison.
46:55Because they haven't sent anyone to prison, we and many others can organize in peace, get together informally to read something, talk about something.
47:06That is the way that the young people started to unite on their own.
47:13And these groups have appeared very many.
47:16How many of these groups have arisen?
47:18No one knows how many.
47:19Perhaps there are a few hundred.
47:21Perhaps a few thousand.
47:22Perhaps tens of thousands.
47:25It's impossible to count them.
47:27Is there a possibility of a return to the past?
47:32Yes, of course, that always exists.
47:39I even think the chances are 50-50 or even greater.
47:46But there is also hope which we must not allow ourselves to neglect.
48:02Even as things change, the past here
48:31casts a long shadow.
48:35Not everyone agrees that things should be different.
48:38Not everyone wants them to be.
48:40Some don't believe the promises.
48:43Some don't care.
48:46It is a society struggling with itself
48:49and thus struggling for its future.
48:52People trying to move forward
48:55by first coming to terms with the truth about their past.
49:00The official veil is officially being lifted.
49:08Plays, books and movies are being taken from the censor's shelf.
49:12Millions of Soviets have seen this film, Repentance.
49:16It is a nightmare of Stalinist terror.
49:28It compels the audience to deal with an unresolved question.
49:31Was it just one man or was it the system?
49:40One scene is painfully real.
49:43As happened in the time of Stalin's purges,
49:45word is passed among the women in a village
49:48that logs have arrived at the railway yard,
49:51bearing carved initials from prisoners in distant labor camps.
50:03This is their first sign of who is dead
50:06and who is alive.
50:08who is alive.
50:09A beautiful woman of people
50:10is the one who is alive.
50:11Is it just a tale of no need
50:12that things happen and that things have been alive?
50:15Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
50:45The tragedy of the people from a child's perception and a child's soul.
51:14When children burned in the flame that adults created.
51:18That is what my book is about.
51:22This is all that remains of my childhood.
51:28As a child during the war, he was shipped to an orphanage in Siberia, where he survived
51:33by winning a game whose prize was a scrap of bread.
51:36I was the orphanage champion.
51:40Don't, don't.
51:42Don't show them.
51:44No, not in any circumstance.
51:46I'm sorry, I have to do it.
51:47In Siberia, he saw Stalin's forced relocation of entire populations and the resulting famine
52:02that killed 7 million Soviet people.
52:04And was your sister with you then?
52:08Yes, my sister was then five years old.
52:15I even wrote in a story how she starved more than I since I was nine years old and I could
52:21steal.
52:23She was small and her portion of bread was always stolen.
52:28When she got desperate, there was an aquarium.
52:30She would get up at night, catch a fish and eat it, alive.
52:36And this saved her life.
52:38But when they noticed the fish had disappeared, she was caught and badly beaten.
52:48The book calls to the world, because if the world can be cruel enough to destroy children,
52:54it's not worth anything.
52:55Naturally, when I touched on this in my novel, it frightened everyone.
53:03How can you tell about what happened then?
53:05What will people think?
53:07They'll think we've begun to tell the truth at last.
53:10We hid the tyranny, which we tried to ignore.
53:13But if I'm wearing a white shirt and underneath there is a wound, the shirt does not eliminate
53:20the wound.
53:20Why did you decide to stay?
53:27There was never any question about it.
53:34I feel very close to the earth.
53:37By nature, I'm a farmer.
53:41I've always felt tied to the land and I love Russian nature, the Russian countryside.
53:48I can't live without these things.
53:52I am a very deeply rooted person.
53:55Eighteen years ago, the Schechter family had no farewell party.
54:19Suspicion and fear kept their friends apart.
54:22This night, on the eve of their departure, everyone was there.
54:29And this, they said, was a sign of just how much things have changed.
54:35Will the changes last?
54:37One friend answers, we will know in a few years.
54:42Either everything will be possible then, or everything will be absolutely impossible.
54:47In my land, from California, to New York Island, from the Redbrook Forest, to the Gold Sea Waters,
54:58this land was made for you and me.
55:05Hey, you know more verses than I know.
55:08Hey, you know more verses, say to her word.
55:09Yes, that tomb of your heart, the sea yes no longer stands.
55:13Our love is, say to her, O Lord, we are bound to you and me.
55:19Don't tell her, she's free, I've been married with someone else.
55:34Don't tell her, she's free, I've been married with someone else.
55:49Beginning this week, Frontline will rebroadcast an updated version of our 11-part series on the Soviet Union called Comrades, full of more revealing insights into the real life of the Soviet people. Comrades can be seen on many of these public television stations. Thank you for joining us, I'm Judy Woodruff, good night.
56:17Next week on Frontline, a special investigation of one of the biggest toxic waste polluters in America, the U.S. military.
56:27For decades, the Defense Department has dumped deadly chemicals into the ground, and citizens across America say they are the victims.
56:35We have 23 cases of cancer, and I feel it's like a nightmare.
56:40Watch Poison and the Pentagon on Frontline.
56:44Thep.
56:47Thep.
56:48Thep.
56:49Thep.
56:50Thep.
56:52Frontline is produced
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57:22by WGBH Boston,
57:24which is solely responsible
57:25for its content.
57:28Funding for Frontline
57:29was provided by this station
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57:33and by the Corporation
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