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The Prison Within (2020) is a compelling documentary that follows individuals navigating the challenges of the justice system while working to rebuild their lives. Through interviews and real-life stories, the film highlights resilience, personal growth, and the power of second chances. Thought-provoking and inspiring, The Prison Within sheds light on perseverance, hope, and the human spirit.
The Prison Within, The Prison Within 2020, inspiring documentary film, resilience documentary, personal growth documentary, second chances film, human spirit documentary, social issues documentary, thought-provoking nonfiction film, modern documentary 2020, must watch documentaries, real-life stories film, meaningful documentary movies, HD movie, full movie, watch online
The Prison Within, The Prison Within 2020, inspiring documentary film, resilience documentary, personal growth documentary, second chances film, human spirit documentary, social issues documentary, thought-provoking nonfiction film, modern documentary 2020, must watch documentaries, real-life stories film, meaningful documentary movies, HD movie, full movie, watch online
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00:00:00Grazie a tutti
00:00:30Experiencing trauma can change the way the world is viewed and how we operate in that world
00:00:36In the aftermath of trauma, we can change physically, emotionally, and mentally
00:00:44Left untreated, trauma multiplies in our communities and seeps down from one generation to the next
00:00:54Unfortunately, most of us do not have access to the kinds of treatment that can heal the trauma we've experienced
00:01:02And often, trauma is the catalyst that begins a recurring cycle of crime and violence
00:01:08As we lock away what we don't want to confront
00:01:12So
00:01:24Grazie a tutti.
00:01:54The closer I get to the prison, I can feel my heart pounding.
00:02:15I think there's a lot of misconceptions about who people are in prison
00:02:20and who those people are that are coming home from prison.
00:02:27There are some men that I definitely wouldn't want living next door to my family.
00:02:34There's another group, the majority of men that I left behind
00:02:38that I think would come home and be a great asset to the community.
00:02:44There it is right there.
00:02:58San Quentin State Prison.
00:02:59Wow.
00:03:09Inside San Quentin Prison, something rare and unique is taking place
00:03:14as groups of men are coming together to specifically address their trauma,
00:03:19both the trauma they've caused and survived.
00:03:24In 2003, Barry Spillman passed his loaded gun to a Nortenio gang member
00:03:35to scare a rival gang chasing them down Highway 101.
00:03:40Three shots were fired, killing the other driver.
00:03:45Barry was sentenced to 20 years to life for second-degree murder.
00:03:49I was in county jail for four years fighting this, three different trials.
00:03:56I was segregated.
00:03:58And when I did get out, all I tried to do was stab Nortenios.
00:04:03That's honest.
00:04:05I was with two Northern, two Nortenios when this crime went down.
00:04:08So that just fueled the anger and the violence that was in me already,
00:04:14and I embraced it.
00:04:15The counselor called me down, and she says,
00:04:18you're going to San Quentin.
00:04:19I said, what the fuck?
00:04:21I want to go to damn San Quentin.
00:04:24I just, I mean, because when I thought of San Quentin,
00:04:26I'm thinking it the way it is back in the 70s and the 80s.
00:04:30I'm getting older, you know what I mean?
00:04:31I'm tired of the fighting.
00:04:32I'm tired of stabbing.
00:04:33I'm tired of watching behind my back.
00:04:36So I came here.
00:04:36And, uh, hated it.
00:04:40The first year I hated it.
00:04:42One of the rare trauma healing programs at San Quentin
00:04:46is the victim-offender education group, known as Vogue,
00:04:50designed to unearth the root causes of one's crime
00:04:54and process its impact on survivors, the community, and themselves.
00:04:59So Vogue sits at the nexus of restorative justice and trauma healing,
00:05:04and it's based on the philosophy that hurt people hurt people.
00:05:09Sonia Shaw is an associate professor
00:05:12at the California Institute of Integral Studies
00:05:15and a facilitator of restorative processes
00:05:17in her community, university, and in prisons.
00:05:21She is also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.
00:05:25We look back, whether it's parents, whether it's environment, school, racism,
00:05:31all the different ways that somebody might have experienced harm.
00:05:35And if you come from an environment in which you haven't had the opportunity
00:05:39to really heal from that harm, it goes unprocessed,
00:05:43then the likelihood is that that trauma turns inward
00:05:47and folks start to hurt themselves,
00:05:49or trauma can turn outwards and people can hurt other people.
00:05:53So there is this well-established connection between trauma and violence,
00:05:58and so much of Vogue is about unpacking that process
00:06:02through a series of exercises that are then processed in the group.
00:06:07A key component of the restorative process is a timeline
00:06:10where the men detail pivotal moments in their lives
00:06:14that cause them to change their outlooks and behaviors.
00:06:17When I was six years old, my dad took me swimming,
00:06:23and he decided to teach me by putting a rope around my chest.
00:06:33My dad was the greatest thing in the world,
00:06:35and I mean, big guy, you know, little guy.
00:06:38But he told me, he says,
00:06:42this rope isn't to help you.
00:06:45This rope's a pull your body off the bottom of the river.
00:06:49I didn't believe him that virtually.
00:06:51That's my dad.
00:06:52Never.
00:06:53It's the first time something like that happened.
00:06:55And he did.
00:06:58I mean, I started drowning.
00:07:01Went on the rope.
00:07:02He let it go.
00:07:06It was the first, first day that I started hating my father.
00:07:10It's the first day that I had violence towards my father.
00:07:13I hit him with a rope.
00:07:15At night, my mom left my dad.
00:07:20She knew about the beatings.
00:07:21She knew about everything.
00:07:23But she chose for us to live with my dad,
00:07:27so I didn't see her much after that.
00:07:30At 12, I hit my father with an axe handle
00:07:34after one of his beatings.
00:07:37At 14, I had a fist fight with my father.
00:07:40Pain, sadness, and longing.
00:07:42But I've also felt empowered.
00:07:45I felt energized.
00:07:47I was angry.
00:07:48I was distrustful.
00:07:49But I came hard working.
00:07:51I started working with the animals.
00:07:54I grew up on 1,800 acres in Louisiana, beef cattle.
00:07:57So, at 14, I was part of the Junior Rodeo.
00:08:03And I rode Buck and Bronx.
00:08:06And I became the state champion when I was 14.
00:08:09I traveled a lot around the state
00:08:11on the weekends with my opa, my grandfather.
00:08:14When I was 15, my opa died.
00:08:28I felt sadness, abandoned, alone, angry.
00:08:32And I still feel those things a lot now
00:08:34when I think about it.
00:08:35I quit the rodeo
00:08:38because it's something he and I did together.
00:08:41When I turned 17,
00:08:42I went to the Army recruiter.
00:08:44I did some incredible things in the military.
00:08:46I went all over the world.
00:08:47I served in Central America,
00:08:50Bosnia, Kuwait,
00:08:52Iraq,
00:08:53and the tip of Afghanistan.
00:08:54Afghanistan.
00:08:54I'm 18 to 20.
00:09:02I assassinated six guys.
00:09:05At first, it was...
00:09:11I puked.
00:09:18A lot.
00:09:20I cried a lot.
00:09:22I cried a lot.
00:09:24And I'm a proud vet.
00:09:26I served 13 years in the Army.
00:09:29Second Battalion Citizens Rangers.
00:09:31During that time,
00:09:32I had two beautiful sons.
00:09:35Brandon and Bradley.
00:09:38I'm a grandfather.
00:09:40I still, uh...
00:09:43fight the PTSD.
00:09:46Um...
00:09:47All the things
00:09:50that I've done in my life,
00:09:52I've jumped out of planes
00:09:54a hundred and fifty-two times.
00:09:56You know?
00:09:59And this lady's made me
00:10:00more scared than anybody in the world.
00:10:05And, uh...
00:10:08That's it.
00:10:11Um...
00:10:11The father issue
00:10:13because of me
00:10:14and with dad
00:10:15and I connect with you.
00:10:17I mean,
00:10:18how you feel
00:10:19when he let go of that rope?
00:10:23I was scared.
00:10:25But I...
00:10:26I had to get to the edge of the water
00:10:27and then
00:10:28once I got out of the water,
00:10:31I can still remember my hand,
00:10:33the one in the sand
00:10:34and this one
00:10:35digging.
00:10:37and I can remember
00:10:39once I broke...
00:10:40broke air
00:10:41that as soon as I did
00:10:42I was angry.
00:10:43And I've had that anger
00:10:44for...
00:10:4640 years.
00:10:48Every time I pulled that trigger
00:10:50to assassinate someone
00:10:51I was hoping it was him
00:10:52at the end of that barrel.
00:10:56I've never told anybody that.
00:10:58It's the first time
00:10:59that's ever came up.
00:11:02And I thank you for
00:11:02honoring me
00:11:03with that question.
00:11:07You have to do your work, right?
00:11:16You have to
00:11:17take that deep dive inside
00:11:20into your emotional makeup
00:11:21to understand what happened.
00:11:26Because I made some choices.
00:11:29Yeah, I made some choices
00:11:31that
00:11:31affected a lot of people.
00:11:37Our justice system
00:11:40currently operates
00:11:41in a way
00:11:41that centers
00:11:42people who have done harm
00:11:45but not in any way
00:11:46that considers
00:11:46how
00:11:47to help them
00:11:49stop doing
00:11:50the harms
00:11:51that they've done
00:11:52or to understand
00:11:52where those harms
00:11:53come from.
00:11:54As the director
00:11:55of the Restorative Justice Project
00:11:57at Impact Justice
00:11:58in Oakland, California
00:12:00and Washington, D.C.,
00:12:02Sujatha Baliga
00:12:03helps communities
00:12:04across the nation
00:12:05implement
00:12:06restorative justice alternatives
00:12:08with an equal commitment
00:12:09to crime survivors
00:12:10and people
00:12:11who have caused harm.
00:12:13She speaks publicly
00:12:14and inside prisons
00:12:16about her own experiences
00:12:17as a survivor
00:12:19of childhood sexual abuse
00:12:20and her path
00:12:22to forgiveness.
00:12:22There's literally nothing
00:12:27that shows
00:12:28our incarceration system
00:12:30either meets
00:12:31our needs for safety
00:12:32as a society
00:12:33or meets the needs
00:12:34of people
00:12:35who've been harmed
00:12:36and we do all of this
00:12:38at an astronomical cost
00:12:40like billions
00:12:42and billions
00:12:42of dollars a year
00:12:43with really terrible
00:12:45outcomes all around.
00:12:48Opportunities like Vogue
00:12:49provide rare moments
00:12:51usually only once a week
00:12:52away from the normal
00:12:54prison life
00:12:54they've experienced
00:12:55throughout their
00:12:56incarcerations
00:12:57filled with isolation
00:12:59prison politics
00:13:01and potential dangers.
00:13:04It's like, hey
00:13:05you know,
00:13:06this is how you make a knife
00:13:07this is how you stab somebody
00:13:09this is how you
00:13:10this is, you know
00:13:11this is what you do
00:13:12after you stab somebody
00:13:13this is how you know
00:13:14you know
00:13:15it's about to be a stabbing
00:13:16going on
00:13:17right?
00:13:18And it was all
00:13:19all these rules
00:13:20you got to pay attention to
00:13:21if there's something
00:13:22going on racial
00:13:23I have to come outside
00:13:26I'm like, hey man
00:13:27I ain't got nothing
00:13:27to do with that
00:13:28you know
00:13:29that ain't my deal
00:13:29but it's either
00:13:31I have to go outside
00:13:32or I have to suffer
00:13:32some kind of consequence
00:13:34I get off the bus
00:13:35the first thing
00:13:35they ask you
00:13:36you're a Mexican
00:13:37so you're either
00:13:38one, two, or three
00:13:39you're either
00:13:40southerner, northerner
00:13:41or you're a bicep
00:13:42but he was explaining
00:13:43to me man
00:13:44we don't want to put you
00:13:44in a building
00:13:46full of southerners
00:13:47they're going to kill you
00:13:48I remember calling my dad
00:13:49on the pay phone
00:13:50and him breaking down
00:13:51the rules to me
00:13:52of prison
00:13:53and one was to keep
00:13:54your nose clean
00:13:55like stay out of
00:13:55people's business
00:13:56he told me to not eat
00:13:58after blacks
00:13:58and he told me not to
00:14:00talk to the cops
00:14:01and if I do
00:14:02I have to talk really loud
00:14:03or I have to have
00:14:05somebody with me
00:14:06the first thing
00:14:07that came out of my mouth
00:14:08was
00:14:08you know I run
00:14:09as an other
00:14:10right?
00:14:12and my dad
00:14:12when he goes to prison
00:14:13he runs as white
00:14:14and so what I realized
00:14:16is he's telling me
00:14:17white rules
00:14:18and these weren't
00:14:19the rules
00:14:20that I followed
00:14:21as a human being
00:14:22and they definitely
00:14:23weren't the rules
00:14:23that I was going to
00:14:24follow in prison
00:14:24but I knew that
00:14:26I had to
00:14:27like for my own safety
00:14:29take it in
00:14:30and somehow survive
00:14:32you know the current
00:14:33system of justice
00:14:35asks what law was broken
00:14:37who broke it
00:14:38and how do we punish them
00:14:39and restorative justice
00:14:41asks a very different
00:14:41set of questions
00:14:42it asks what happened
00:14:43and what needs to happen now
00:14:46right?
00:14:46and to bring people together
00:14:48to actually answer
00:14:49those questions
00:14:50is an incredibly powerful
00:14:52experience
00:14:52and you can do it
00:14:54directly with the people
00:14:55who've experienced harm
00:14:56but we can be asking
00:14:58those questions
00:14:58in any context
00:14:59including inside prisons
00:15:01and none of that
00:15:02is to excuse
00:15:04in any way
00:15:05the fact that you may have
00:15:06taken someone's life
00:15:07or raped someone
00:15:08this is not to devalue
00:15:09that
00:15:09that your actual
00:15:11personal agency
00:15:12in having made
00:15:13having done that act
00:15:15having made the choice
00:15:16to do that act
00:15:17but it gives it context
00:15:20and then from there
00:15:21we can start to talk
00:15:22about what needs to happen
00:15:23to make amends
00:15:24or to heal this
00:15:25and even to start
00:15:26to put the structures
00:15:27into place
00:15:28that can prevent this
00:15:30from happening again
00:15:31in the future
00:15:31I love how Sonia Shaw
00:15:33talks about
00:15:33getting to the cause
00:15:35of the cause
00:15:35of the cause
00:15:36of the cause
00:15:36and while we can do that
00:15:38in our individual lives
00:15:39we can also do that
00:15:40sort of historically
00:15:41and really mapping
00:15:42the transgenerational trauma
00:15:44that gave rise
00:15:45to the moment
00:15:46that we're in today
00:15:47where we was living
00:15:55and growing up
00:15:56in Charleston, South Carolina
00:15:57we experienced
00:15:58a lot of racism
00:15:59and they would call us
00:16:02niggers
00:16:03and then they would
00:16:03call us boys
00:16:04burn crosses
00:16:07sometime in the middle
00:16:09of the yard
00:16:10at night and stuff
00:16:10and I can remember
00:16:13my mom
00:16:13we would get on
00:16:14in the back of the bus
00:16:15and seeing people beat up
00:16:17and stuff
00:16:18like their houses
00:16:18catch on fire
00:16:19I remember getting hit
00:16:23with rocks
00:16:23and bottles
00:16:24being 6, 7, 9 years old
00:16:27growing up
00:16:28running home
00:16:28from school
00:16:29and stuff
00:16:30but my mom
00:16:30was the one
00:16:31that held us together
00:16:32and told us
00:16:33that not all white people
00:16:34are bad
00:16:35there's bad black folks
00:16:37too and everything
00:16:38so that kind of educated
00:16:39me a little bit
00:16:40but I couldn't understand
00:16:41why people hated me
00:16:43because of the color
00:16:43of my skin
00:16:44growing up
00:16:44Sam Johnson
00:16:46and a friend
00:16:47were walking down
00:16:48a street
00:16:48when his friend
00:16:49decided to rob
00:16:50a group of people
00:16:50getting into their car
00:16:51Sam tried to intervene
00:16:54but shots were fired
00:16:55and Sam shot a man
00:16:56in the heart
00:16:57he was sentenced
00:16:58to 29 years to life
00:17:00for first degree murder
00:17:01another step
00:17:04towards trauma healing
00:17:05is writing a letter
00:17:07of forgiveness
00:17:07to someone
00:17:08who has harmed them
00:17:09and empathizing
00:17:11with the trauma
00:17:12their abuser
00:17:13may have experienced
00:17:14this piece is a letter
00:17:16of forgiveness
00:17:16it mainly
00:17:19it focuses
00:17:21at my dad
00:17:22I wish he was alive
00:17:24because of who I am
00:17:26today
00:17:26it was rough
00:17:28growing up in South Carolina
00:17:29it was ugly
00:17:31and
00:17:33he had a sixth grade education
00:17:35and he loved us
00:17:37with all he had
00:17:39but then he was an alcoholic
00:17:41and he was a violent alcoholic
00:17:43but I loved my dad
00:17:45a whole lot
00:17:46because he did a lot
00:17:47for us
00:17:48and for that reason
00:17:49I would have learned
00:17:50a forgiveness
00:17:51so bear with me
00:17:52I was the protector
00:17:55the man of the house
00:17:57I was responsible
00:17:58for my baby brother
00:18:00and responsible
00:18:01for defending him
00:18:02even if he was in the wrong
00:18:03I was responsible
00:18:10for keeping my mother safe
00:18:11even if it meant
00:18:13hurting my dad
00:18:14years of what was
00:18:16considered to be
00:18:17the norm
00:18:18I now know
00:18:19to be physical abuse
00:18:20seeing my mother's blood
00:18:23as she held the blade
00:18:24of my dad's knife
00:18:25in her hand
00:18:26stopping him
00:18:27from cutting her throat
00:18:28this was the day
00:18:33I gave my dad
00:18:34six to eight stitches
00:18:35in his head
00:18:36I have become
00:18:38a threat to his manhood
00:18:39I was the nigger
00:18:41he was called by whites
00:18:42as I grew old
00:18:44I learned
00:18:45and I understood
00:18:46that my dad loved us
00:18:47but was carrying
00:18:48a lot of pain
00:18:49the pain of not being
00:18:51accepted as equal
00:18:52at that time
00:18:53all we had
00:18:55was each other
00:18:55and it was better
00:18:57to be beaten
00:18:58by my father
00:18:58than at the hands
00:19:00of the people
00:19:00who hated us
00:19:01and wanted us dead
00:19:02because of the color
00:19:04of our skin
00:19:04the pain and hurt
00:19:06my dad must have carried
00:19:07to show himself
00:19:09to be a man
00:19:10he could not afford
00:19:11to cry openly
00:19:12no
00:19:13he had to wear
00:19:15the mask of toughness
00:19:16where a man
00:19:17is not supposed to cry
00:19:18dad I truly love you
00:19:25and I want you to know
00:19:28that God has blessed me
00:19:29with a loving wife
00:19:30you have five beautiful
00:19:33grandchildren
00:19:33and four great grandchildren
00:19:36and an adopted child
00:19:38I have adopted
00:19:39in the Congo of Africa
00:19:40while being in prison
00:19:41I've learned
00:19:43that in order for me
00:19:44to experience
00:19:45God's love
00:19:46more and more
00:19:47I must begin
00:19:49the healing process
00:19:50by first loving me
00:19:51in order to be able
00:19:53to forgive others
00:19:54I am truly happy
00:19:56and extremely grateful
00:19:58to God
00:19:58that you
00:19:59my dad
00:20:00you were my dad
00:20:01and I have forgiven you
00:20:03with all my heart
00:20:04I have a responsibility
00:20:06in educating myself
00:20:08in order to help
00:20:09educate my family
00:20:10and seeing that life
00:20:11is beautiful
00:20:12and precious
00:20:13I miss my day
00:20:32I really do
00:20:35because I knew
00:20:39I know now
00:20:40what he was carrying
00:20:41and he just didn't know
00:20:45how to address
00:20:46issues
00:20:46and deal with
00:20:47and then it was
00:20:50passed on
00:20:51from his dad
00:20:51it was abuse
00:20:52and if it wasn't
00:20:54from becoming a person
00:20:55I would abuse
00:20:56my son too
00:20:56what I want to know
00:21:00is like
00:21:00what else
00:21:02when it comes
00:21:03to the beatings
00:21:04and how he actually
00:21:05treated you
00:21:06what process
00:21:09or what thoughts
00:21:10or what
00:21:10realization
00:21:11you come to
00:21:12to allow you
00:21:13to start to
00:21:14open up
00:21:15to forgive me
00:21:15because I realize
00:21:17he's hurting too
00:21:18and they got to say
00:21:20hurt people
00:21:20hurt people
00:21:21it's true
00:21:21they don't understand
00:21:22what they're doing
00:21:23because they can't
00:21:24process it
00:21:25I didn't believe
00:21:25my dad could process
00:21:26nothing
00:21:26with the education
00:21:27he had
00:21:28and then I put myself
00:21:29what I went through
00:21:30and him growing up
00:21:32born in 1919
00:21:33I believe it was
00:21:34really ugly for him
00:21:36and that's all he knew
00:21:39and when he got angry
00:21:41because he couldn't
00:21:42process it
00:21:42he drank
00:21:43and tried to drown it
00:21:44and he took it
00:21:46on me and my mom
00:21:47I mean
00:21:47he hurt her so bad
00:21:49and I wanted to kill
00:21:51my dad
00:21:52the man who I love
00:21:53the man who
00:21:54set out at night
00:21:55with a shotgun
00:21:56to protect our house
00:21:57that's what the dad
00:21:58I love
00:21:59the ugliness
00:22:01was the ugliness
00:22:02that I believe
00:22:02he developed
00:22:03to protect himself
00:22:04to protect the family
00:22:06to be able to say
00:22:07he's a man
00:22:07but he was so hurt
00:22:10and he carried it all
00:22:11so I couldn't
00:22:12I can't hate him
00:22:13because that's all
00:22:15he could process
00:22:16what I have to forgive
00:22:17people who do you wrong
00:22:20who hurt you
00:22:21to call your names
00:22:22and stuff
00:22:22they're hurting
00:22:23because they can't
00:22:24process
00:22:25and that's the way
00:22:28I forgive my dad
00:22:29so I do my best
00:22:30still got work to do
00:22:31when we heal
00:22:46particularly intergenerational
00:22:48or historical trauma
00:22:49and by intergenerational
00:22:50or historical trauma
00:22:51I mean
00:22:52events that have happened
00:22:54that have traumatized
00:22:55whole communities
00:22:56like
00:22:56the genocide
00:22:57of native people
00:22:58the Vietnam War
00:23:00the legacies
00:23:02of slavery
00:23:03that level of trauma
00:23:06happening to your
00:23:06whole community
00:23:07is a huge weight
00:23:08and can be passed
00:23:09from ancestor
00:23:10to ancestor
00:23:11from father to son
00:23:12to father to son
00:23:13so when you break
00:23:25that cycle
00:23:25or when you heal
00:23:26that trauma
00:23:27you know
00:23:28you are connecting
00:23:29you're making sense
00:23:30that I've been
00:23:30slavery has been traumatic
00:23:32for me
00:23:33and my lineage
00:23:35and my ancestry
00:23:35you are not passing
00:23:38that on to your child
00:23:39so you're healing
00:23:41the generations
00:23:41to come
00:23:42and you're actually
00:23:44healing the generations
00:23:45that have experienced
00:23:46that trauma
00:23:47whether I'm
00:23:58inside a prison
00:23:59giving a talk
00:24:01or being in circle
00:24:01with guys inside a prison
00:24:03or I'm giving a talk
00:24:04at Yale Law School
00:24:05when I'm done
00:24:07talking about
00:24:07my own survivor history
00:24:09there is a line
00:24:10of people
00:24:11always waiting
00:24:12to talk to me
00:24:13the same thing
00:24:14over that happened
00:24:14to me too
00:24:15me too
00:24:16me too
00:24:16like the first time
00:24:17I really heard
00:24:17the words me too
00:24:18was actually
00:24:19inside a prison
00:24:20throughout my childhood
00:24:22and adolescence
00:24:23I was sexually abused
00:24:24by my father
00:24:24and I think
00:24:26over the years
00:24:27learning more
00:24:27about restorative justice
00:24:28it seemed like
00:24:29this could have been
00:24:30a way which my family
00:24:31could have healed
00:24:31and so that's a huge part
00:24:34of why I do
00:24:34the work I do today
00:24:36I think another reason
00:24:37I'm just deeply drawn
00:24:39to restorative justice
00:24:40is that it really
00:24:41gives us an opportunity
00:24:42to step beyond
00:24:43this binary notion
00:24:45of us and them
00:24:47my father clearly
00:24:49had unresolved
00:24:51childhood trauma
00:24:52of his own
00:24:53and so does my mother
00:24:56I mean
00:24:57her inability
00:24:58to protect me
00:24:59was directly related
00:25:00to her own
00:25:02childhood traumas
00:25:03and adult traumas
00:25:04and when I look
00:25:06at any one of us
00:25:07as individuals
00:25:07including myself
00:25:08I can't put myself
00:25:10neatly in this bucket
00:25:12of like good guy
00:25:13and my father's
00:25:14in the bucket
00:25:14of bad guy
00:25:15I'm often positive
00:25:17as this like
00:25:17survivor leader person
00:25:19and while that's true
00:25:20I think I also need
00:25:21to take responsibility
00:25:22for the fact that
00:25:23I've done a lot of things
00:25:25for which I could have
00:25:26been incarcerated
00:25:26if I had been caught
00:25:28right
00:25:28and I think that's true
00:25:29of many of us
00:25:30while I was at Harvard
00:25:32I was smoking
00:25:33an astronomical amount
00:25:35of marijuana
00:25:35and I would often
00:25:36be carrying an amount
00:25:37of marijuana
00:25:38that I would often
00:25:39split up amongst
00:25:40my friends
00:25:41that if that was me
00:25:42living in East Oakland
00:25:44as an African American
00:25:45child
00:25:46like that would have
00:25:47been distribution
00:25:47right
00:25:48that is the kind of thing
00:25:49that you get locked up for
00:25:50but since that weed
00:25:52was tucked nicely
00:25:54in the pocket
00:25:54of my Harvard sweatshirt
00:25:56nobody was going to stop
00:25:57the Indian girl
00:25:58at Harvard
00:25:59or there are times
00:26:01in my life
00:26:01when I've used violence
00:26:02right
00:26:03I once hit someone
00:26:04I was dating
00:26:04with a closed fist
00:26:05does that mean
00:26:07that I get sort of
00:26:07that I lose my status
00:26:09as a survivor
00:26:10that the 10 years
00:26:11of sexual abuse
00:26:11I endured
00:26:12and the multiple rapes
00:26:13that I've experienced
00:26:14are erased
00:26:15so you know
00:26:17you can look at me
00:26:17and say no
00:26:18but then why don't
00:26:19we do the same
00:26:20for all the people
00:26:20sitting inside
00:26:21why don't we do
00:26:22the same thing
00:26:23they are no different
00:26:24from me
00:26:24except they are
00:26:26because they live
00:26:27with so many more
00:26:28types of oppression
00:26:28than I've had to live with
00:26:30because of my first run-in
00:26:47with law enforcement
00:26:48at the age of 7
00:26:50by the time I was 13
00:26:52and I was getting chased
00:26:53by some gang members
00:26:54instead of me running
00:26:56to the police station
00:26:58I tried to make it
00:27:00to the other side
00:27:00of the park
00:27:01where I knew
00:27:03that this particular
00:27:05gang's rival gang
00:27:06hung out at
00:27:06because I was more
00:27:08afraid of the police
00:27:09than I was of the gangs
00:27:10in my neighborhood
00:27:11I did not recognize
00:27:13the onslaught
00:27:14that was happening
00:27:16against my spirit
00:27:17I had locked myself
00:27:22in a prison
00:27:23before I ever
00:27:24went to prison
00:27:25I built these walls up
00:27:27to shield me
00:27:29from this
00:27:29psychological trauma
00:27:31that was coming at me
00:27:32from every direction
00:27:33and then we fall
00:27:35into the trap
00:27:37of the real physical prison
00:27:40for decades
00:27:41and we look at
00:27:42how trauma
00:27:44is playing out
00:27:45in individual communities
00:27:46in African American
00:27:48black and brown
00:27:49and poor communities
00:27:50you take people
00:27:52that have already
00:27:52experienced
00:27:53use amounts
00:27:56of trauma
00:27:56you place them
00:27:58into an environment
00:27:59that further
00:28:00exasperates that trauma
00:28:01and then you hold them there
00:28:04and then you turn around
00:28:05and you release them
00:28:09and then somehow
00:28:11society expects
00:28:12that there's going to be
00:28:13some kind of
00:28:14different result
00:28:15and that trauma
00:28:18that mentality
00:28:19then continues
00:28:20to get transferred
00:28:21right back
00:28:22into the community
00:28:23I just wanted
00:28:27like
00:28:27I really hope
00:28:31people can get
00:28:32how
00:28:32connected
00:28:35that is
00:28:37Troy Williams
00:28:39was released
00:28:40in 2014
00:28:41after serving
00:28:4218 years
00:28:43of a life sentence
00:28:43at San Quentin
00:28:45for kidnapping
00:28:46and robbery
00:28:47while incarcerated
00:28:48he participated
00:28:49in numerous
00:28:50self-help programs
00:28:51including Vogue
00:28:53became a certified
00:28:54paralegal
00:28:55created a video
00:28:56production program
00:28:57and the first
00:28:59prison-based
00:29:00audio storytelling
00:29:01program
00:29:01in the U.S.
00:29:03since paroling
00:29:05he has become
00:29:06a national speaker
00:29:07working with
00:29:08other formerly
00:29:08incarcerated men
00:29:09and women
00:29:10to break the
00:29:10school-to-prison pipeline
00:29:12one of the programs
00:29:16that I participated
00:29:17in
00:29:18had a survivor's panel
00:29:19and
00:29:21what a survivor's panel
00:29:22is
00:29:23is that they bring
00:29:23in what they call
00:29:24a surrogate
00:29:26victim
00:29:27somebody who has
00:29:29experienced the trauma
00:29:30of
00:29:33the crime
00:29:35that you committed
00:29:35I gotta admit
00:29:38I had a very difficult
00:29:40time initially
00:29:41trying to understand
00:29:42what the victims
00:29:43in my case
00:29:44went through
00:29:45I knew they were scared
00:29:47but I've been living
00:29:48in fear
00:29:49all my life
00:29:51so that really
00:29:53didn't have
00:29:54a real
00:29:55sense
00:29:57of meaning
00:29:58that could give me
00:29:59empathy
00:30:00and when I had
00:30:01my victim's panel
00:30:03one of the ladies
00:30:04came in
00:30:04who had been robbed
00:30:06I got a glimpse
00:30:07into her world
00:30:08for her
00:30:09that fear
00:30:10caused her
00:30:11to shrink
00:30:12and shrivel
00:30:12and hide
00:30:14and sort of
00:30:15cower in
00:30:16for me
00:30:17the fear
00:30:18that I had
00:30:19experienced
00:30:19caused me
00:30:20to cower
00:30:22outwardly
00:30:24and become
00:30:26aggressive
00:30:26and by seeing
00:30:29how
00:30:29it altered
00:30:33her life
00:30:33I was able
00:30:39to get a peek
00:30:40into how
00:30:41my own life
00:30:41had been altered
00:30:42wow
00:30:45I didn't expect this
00:30:47I hope
00:30:56that we
00:30:57are able
00:30:57to take
00:30:58the time
00:30:59to learn
00:31:00and know
00:31:01another person's
00:31:03story
00:31:03before we
00:31:05judge them
00:31:06and throw
00:31:06them away
00:31:07I think
00:31:09that if we did
00:31:10that we'll find
00:31:10that we have
00:31:11a lot more
00:31:12that will
00:31:12bind us together
00:31:14than tear us apart
00:31:15Vogue is a curriculum
00:31:22that comes alive
00:31:24during a group process
00:31:26what happens
00:31:27when we sit together
00:31:28for 50, 60, 70, 80 weeks
00:31:30is a deep level
00:31:32of repair
00:31:33the process
00:31:34of truth telling
00:31:35about oneself
00:31:36also relates
00:31:38to the process
00:31:39of truth telling
00:31:40about the impact
00:31:41you have
00:31:41on other people
00:31:42it was Monday night
00:31:52just after 11 o'clock
00:31:54San Leandro
00:31:55police officer
00:31:56Nels Nimi
00:31:56known as Dan
00:31:57on the force
00:31:58responded to a
00:31:59routine call
00:32:00on Doolittle Drive
00:32:01well it was
00:32:04the middle of the night
00:32:04so
00:32:08I hear
00:32:14banging on my door
00:32:16and
00:32:21I see
00:32:22three of my
00:32:23closest friends
00:32:24still in their
00:32:25uniforms
00:32:26police say
00:32:28officer Nimi
00:32:28was just having
00:32:29a conversation
00:32:30with a group
00:32:31of young men
00:32:31when Ramirez
00:32:32opened fire
00:32:33for no apparent
00:32:33reason
00:32:34officer Nimi
00:32:35was rushed
00:32:35to Eaton Medical
00:32:36Center
00:32:36in Castro Valley
00:32:37but died less
00:32:38than a half
00:32:39an hour later
00:32:40now we have
00:32:50to go see him
00:32:52at the hospital
00:32:53the nurse
00:32:55tries to prepare
00:32:57me
00:32:57now I'm just
00:32:58gonna pull back
00:33:00part of the sheet
00:33:01and you can't
00:33:03touch it
00:33:03and
00:33:05he's just
00:33:08covered in blood
00:33:11the 42 year old
00:33:15police officer
00:33:16leaves a wife
00:33:17a 13 year old
00:33:18son
00:33:19and a 6 year old
00:33:20daughter
00:33:20and a legacy
00:33:21of helping others
00:33:22by now
00:33:25it's morning
00:33:26and
00:33:28I have to go home
00:33:29and tell
00:33:30my children
00:33:31Gabby's in her room
00:33:37Josh was still
00:33:39sleeping
00:33:40I wake Josh
00:33:42and
00:33:43I actually
00:33:45can't remember
00:33:48what I said
00:33:49I don't remember
00:33:50what I say
00:33:51to him
00:33:51but I tell him
00:33:54and we just
00:33:59cling to each
00:33:59other
00:34:00sobbing
00:34:01I go into
00:34:06her room
00:34:07and I sit down
00:34:08on the floor
00:34:09in front of her
00:34:10and I said
00:34:12daddy had
00:34:14a very bad
00:34:15accident
00:34:15at that
00:34:19she
00:34:19looks up
00:34:21at me
00:34:21eyes wide
00:34:22and
00:34:23says
00:34:24is he okay
00:34:25and
00:34:28all I could
00:34:29say is
00:34:29no
00:34:30he's
00:34:31he's not
00:34:32okay
00:34:32they couldn't
00:34:35save him
00:34:35and
00:34:40he died
00:34:40and
00:34:43she
00:34:43just
00:34:43starts
00:34:44screaming
00:34:45nap
00:34:57nap
00:35:09nap
00:35:13nap
00:35:13nap
00:35:14nap
00:35:14a
00:35:16he was running their names
00:35:18and seeing if they had any
00:35:20wants warrants
00:35:21one of the guys knew that he would be subject
00:35:24to a search
00:35:26he had guns and drugs on him
00:35:28while Dan was turned
00:35:30and talking into his
00:35:32microphone he shot
00:35:34Dan in the head
00:35:36and then when Dan
00:35:38fell he
00:35:40shot him six more times
00:35:42while he was on the ground
00:35:43the man accused of killing officer Nimi
00:35:50is set to appear in a Hayward courtroom this morning
00:35:5223 year old Irving Ramirez
00:35:54of Newark not only faces the murder
00:35:56charge but also three
00:35:58special circumstance clauses
00:36:00they make him eligible for the death penalty
00:36:02I want
00:36:04vengeance and I'm staring
00:36:06at him I'm in the same room
00:36:08with him
00:36:08I hated him
00:36:10I hated him I wanted to just jump
00:36:13over that barrier and
00:36:16strangle him with my bare hands
00:36:19I've never felt that violent
00:36:21in my life
00:36:23toward anything or anybody
00:36:26for any reason
00:36:27I just wanted him to die
00:36:29horribly
00:36:31I really worked hard
00:36:36to get him put on death row
00:36:38I wrote op-eds for the paper
00:36:40every time a camera was in my face
00:36:43I told the reporters
00:36:45exactly why he should be killed
00:36:47I get up on that stand
00:36:50and I go through the whole
00:36:52painful story
00:36:54sobbing the whole time
00:36:56it doesn't take the jury very long
00:37:00to come back and give us
00:37:04what we've been waiting for
00:37:06then we have a giant party
00:37:10yay
00:37:12we got the death penalty
00:37:14he's gonna die
00:37:17he's gonna die
00:37:17that bastard
00:37:18and then
00:37:20something really unexpected
00:37:25happened to me
00:37:27I have this expectation
00:37:29that because I got what I wanted
00:37:32I got the death penalty
00:37:33this giant weight is gonna be
00:37:37lifted off of me
00:37:38that bastard is gonna pay
00:37:41and I am now gonna have this
00:37:46lifting of this burden
00:37:48on my heart
00:37:49and I wait
00:37:53and I wait
00:37:55and I wait
00:37:56and it never comes
00:37:57I just became
00:38:00really depressed
00:38:02and that's how I stayed
00:38:04for the next couple of years
00:38:07I was just stuck
00:38:08the walls of prisons
00:38:19are there
00:38:21not only to keep people in
00:38:22but also to keep people out
00:38:24I think it's part of a justification
00:38:28why our society is choosing
00:38:32to not be invested in rehabilitation
00:38:34if you believe that somebody
00:38:36is fundamentally different from you
00:38:38and they should be discarded
00:38:41they should be contained in warehouse
00:38:43then you don't have to do anything
00:38:45one reason that I think
00:38:48drives that ignorance quite a bit
00:38:50is the sense of us and them
00:38:53that I'm not capable of that
00:38:56and who is somebody other than me
00:38:59but I see in these men
00:39:03something that used to exist
00:39:05inside of me
00:39:06which is profound suffering
00:39:08Jamie Carroll was a college communications teacher
00:39:17when she was asked to attend a circle
00:39:18to talk about the impact
00:39:20of the crime she experienced as a child
00:39:23at nine years old
00:39:26Jamie and two other girls
00:39:28were abducted
00:39:29tortured
00:39:30and raped
00:39:32it was the scenario of hurt or be hurt
00:39:36so I often was given the choice
00:39:38of either being assaulted
00:39:39or thinking up something
00:39:41that could be done
00:39:42to one of the other children
00:39:43whoever had the worst idea
00:39:46which was deemed the best idea
00:39:48by the perpetrators
00:39:49is the thing that would get acted out
00:39:51and the child would then pick
00:39:54which child would be harmed
00:39:56and it felt like we were driving the violence
00:39:59in an effort to feel as little pain as possible
00:40:04I was manipulated and broken down
00:40:07in ways that were very, very painful
00:40:11my crime was in 1963
00:40:15and I lived intimately with my perpetrators
00:40:20ever since then
00:40:21and I believe that
00:40:23on the day that I die
00:40:25there will be times
00:40:26when I'm still thinking
00:40:27about what happened to me
00:40:29I ended up in this group
00:40:36with ten men and three survivors
00:40:38there was this guy to my right
00:40:40when I was talking
00:40:41he was just visibly shaken
00:40:45and when I got done
00:40:47talking about the impact of the crime
00:40:49pretty quickly
00:40:50he raised his hand
00:40:53and he said
00:40:54I wonder if I could
00:40:57tell you something
00:40:58and I kind of braced myself
00:41:01and I wasn't sure
00:41:03what I was going to hear
00:41:04and I was pretty anxious
00:41:05and he said
00:41:06well I think that they took you
00:41:09because you were there
00:41:10I just started sobbing
00:41:13because that for me
00:41:14had been one of the most profound
00:41:16and significant
00:41:17and chronic questions
00:41:19about my assault
00:41:20that I had been asking
00:41:21why me
00:41:22and when he said it
00:41:24I knew it was true
00:41:27and when he got to his crime
00:41:29he had committed an abduction
00:41:32to meet somebody
00:41:34that had committed the same crime
00:41:36that I had been haunted by
00:41:38in so many ways
00:41:39and to feel this profound connection
00:41:42and to experience this humanity
00:41:44the ground just shifted beneath me
00:41:48I didn't know exactly
00:41:50what I was experiencing
00:41:51and what this work was
00:41:53but I knew that I was going to do it
00:41:54We have been told
00:42:06that the state punishing people
00:42:08literally harming people
00:42:10to show people
00:42:10that harming people is wrong
00:42:12is the only option
00:42:14for accountability
00:42:15Prison is criminogenic
00:42:18Prison produces crime
00:42:23It's like completely counterintuitive
00:42:26that we send anyone
00:42:28to a thing that makes it more likely
00:42:30that they're going to commit more crimes
00:42:32And I'm not even talking about places
00:42:34like San Quentin
00:42:35where there's actually programming
00:42:36but the vast majority of prisons
00:42:38across this country
00:42:39have nothing
00:42:40have nothing to help people
00:42:42figure out how to turn their lives around
00:42:44It's why I have so much trouble
00:42:46with the story
00:42:47that that's coddling the guys inside
00:42:49to ask them about their trauma histories
00:42:52It's giving them an opportunity
00:42:53to make excuses for what they did
00:42:55These aren't excuses
00:42:57These are explanations
00:42:58and that if we don't have explanations
00:43:01we can't possibly figure out
00:43:03how to make sure that this doesn't happen again
00:43:05What drew me to this work
00:43:07is just recognizing
00:43:08that there is a way out
00:43:12and the way out is through
00:43:14And when I say the way out is through
00:43:16what I mean is
00:43:17in order to be healed
00:43:19and to be released
00:43:20whatever they are suffering from
00:43:26must be named
00:43:27and processed
00:43:29and understood
00:43:30A lot of group members
00:43:33consistently report
00:43:34it's the first time
00:43:35they're really
00:43:36really telling the truth
00:43:38about their crime
00:43:38If you don't talk about it
00:43:41it just
00:43:42is inside of you
00:43:45and I think
00:43:46if it's crime
00:43:47it's inside of you
00:43:48in very heavy
00:43:49and difficult ways
00:43:51I guess my crime
00:43:54started really long
00:43:55you know
00:43:55before
00:43:56June 29th
00:43:581999
00:43:59when I
00:43:59selfishly
00:44:02carelessly
00:44:02you know
00:44:04took the life
00:44:04of Roma Hayes
00:44:05a 20 year old
00:44:07young female
00:44:07who was
00:44:08had her whole life
00:44:09ahead of her
00:44:10I was going to school
00:44:15I would get bullied
00:44:16and stuff at school
00:44:17and like I
00:44:17you know
00:44:18go tell my older brother
00:44:19because my older brother
00:44:20was like
00:44:20I looked up to him
00:44:21he was like
00:44:21you know
00:44:23on the streets
00:44:23he was the man
00:44:24so I'd go get my brother
00:44:26and then he'd turn around
00:44:27and help them beat me up
00:44:28and you know
00:44:28do stuff like that
00:44:29and then I'd go tell
00:44:30my pops
00:44:31and you know
00:44:33he'd be like
00:44:34man get your soft ass
00:44:35out of my face
00:44:35man you ain't my son
00:44:37to them I was weird
00:44:38like you know
00:44:38I like to draw
00:44:39play the clarinet
00:44:40you know
00:44:41and that's
00:44:41like to them
00:44:42that was stupid
00:44:43so I stopped doing that
00:44:46and then
00:44:46when my older brother
00:44:48went to jail
00:44:48for murder
00:44:49that kind of
00:44:50gave me the opportunity
00:44:51to basically try to
00:44:52fill my older brother's
00:44:53shoes
00:44:54and so that's when
00:44:55you know
00:44:55I started
00:44:56stealing cars
00:44:58and committing
00:44:59all these kind of
00:44:59little crimes
00:45:00which basically led
00:45:01to juvenile hall
00:45:02and CYA
00:45:04and boys camps
00:45:06and stuff like that
00:45:06but
00:45:09I kind of
00:45:10notice
00:45:10now
00:45:11especially
00:45:11looking back
00:45:12that the whole time
00:45:13I kind of
00:45:14became numb
00:45:15to like
00:45:16my own feelings
00:45:17and everybody else's
00:45:18after juvenile detention
00:45:21Nate went to prison
00:45:22for gun possession
00:45:23he was released
00:45:25at 21
00:45:26and returned
00:45:27to his hometown
00:45:27of Richmond, California
00:45:28where he was shot
00:45:30on five different occasions
00:45:32on June 19, 1999
00:45:35he confronted a man
00:45:37from a rival gang
00:45:38that was threatening him
00:45:39I stopped
00:45:41and actually having
00:45:42you know
00:45:43just a regular conversation
00:45:44I'm like
00:45:44hey look man
00:45:44you know
00:45:45we don't got no problems
00:45:46I don't know why
00:45:47you you know
00:45:47making these threats
00:45:49but then you know
00:45:50I kind of noticed
00:45:51it's like
00:45:51some of his friends
00:45:52started coming outside
00:45:53so I had my gun
00:45:54the whole time
00:45:55under my legs
00:45:55so I kind of just
00:45:56put it on my lap
00:45:57he don't know that
00:45:58but so he kind of like
00:45:59made a gesture
00:46:00to his shirt
00:46:01so I just raised my gun
00:46:03and just started
00:46:04just shot like
00:46:05all in that area
00:46:06and drove off
00:46:07the man Nate shot at
00:46:09was not harmed
00:46:10but a bullet
00:46:11entered an apartment window
00:46:13killing a young woman
00:46:14at 22
00:46:16Nate was sentenced
00:46:18to 60 years to life
00:46:20for second degree murder
00:46:21and then I found out
00:46:24who it was
00:46:25and I knew her brother
00:46:26I went to school
00:46:27with her brother
00:46:27I don't know
00:46:28what happened inside me
00:46:29but I ended up
00:46:30turning myself in
00:46:31July 2nd
00:46:32and when I got sentenced
00:46:34you know
00:46:36her mother
00:46:37you know
00:46:38it was like
00:46:38here's a picture
00:46:39and this and that
00:46:40and I was just like
00:46:41you know
00:46:41I looked at the picture
00:46:42and gave it back
00:46:42and she asked me
00:46:43why I was driving around
00:46:44with a gun
00:46:45and I was like
00:46:46man people was trying
00:46:47to kill me
00:46:48what do you think
00:46:48if I was driving around
00:46:49with a gun
00:46:50I mean you live in Richmond
00:46:51you know what goes on
00:46:52in your neighborhood
00:46:53where you stay
00:46:53man I got shot
00:46:54five times
00:46:55but
00:46:56I didn't
00:46:58you know
00:46:58I didn't
00:46:59I didn't
00:46:59I didn't had
00:46:59an emotional
00:47:00intelligence
00:47:01to realize
00:47:01man I just took
00:47:02they daughter
00:47:03away from them
00:47:04when he go to
00:47:05sentence me
00:47:07and he give me
00:47:0760 years
00:47:08to life
00:47:10you know
00:47:11I kind of
00:47:12looked at him
00:47:12like what I'm
00:47:13getting all this
00:47:13time for
00:47:14man
00:47:14I mean
00:47:14it was
00:47:15pretty much
00:47:15an accident
00:47:16and that's
00:47:17kind of like
00:47:18the story
00:47:18that I told
00:47:19myself
00:47:19all the way
00:47:21up until
00:47:21about
00:47:21three years
00:47:23ago
00:47:23non è sempre mio fault.
00:47:25La persone che sono incarcerati
00:47:27sono detto che è la sua action
00:47:28e che non è vero qualcosa di più.
00:47:31E lo che facciamo con Vogue,
00:47:34lo che facciamo con Restorative Justice
00:47:35è separare la persona
00:47:37da l'action e dire che non è la sua crime.
00:47:40Hai potuto committere una terribile acta,
00:47:43ma che non è quello che sei
00:47:45in la core della sua vita.
00:47:47Quindi, se puoi separare l'acto
00:47:49da l'acto, si puoi essere
00:47:50diventamente accountable e responsabile
00:47:52per l'acto.
00:47:53E tu puoi sviluppare la sua core
00:47:55e la sua sensazione di chi sei,
00:47:58cosa che hai a contribuire
00:47:59a il mondo e la bellezza di chi sei.
00:48:03Ma hai bisogno di questa comunitÃ
00:48:04di poterciare e poterciare
00:48:06e poterciare e poterciare
00:48:07e poterciare e poterciare
00:48:07e poterciare che ti sentirei
00:48:08che ti sentirei da l'altro.
00:48:09E la validazione e poterciare
00:48:10come da l'oncione e direi
00:48:12che ti sentirei qualcosa di fantastico.
00:48:14Non è una cosa che possiamo fare in isolamento.
00:48:17Nate era convincente
00:48:18di TriVogue e altri programmi
00:48:20di persone che conosceva di Richmond
00:48:22che avevano già benvenuto da loro,
00:48:24come James Houston.
00:48:26Houston, really,
00:48:28è come,
00:48:28io ti rendo molto credito a lui,
00:48:30perché,
00:48:31perché, per lui,
00:48:32non sarei venuti qui?
00:48:34non sarei venuti qui,
00:48:39e quindi,
00:48:40perché di questo,
00:48:42è per cui mi continuo
00:48:44cercare di poterciare
00:48:45in una posizione
00:48:46di conoscere con persone.
00:48:47Houston,
00:48:48come James,
00:48:49right so my curiosity is around how did you get to a point where you could connect with
00:48:55houston because i know him from the streets he was the same person as i was
00:49:00and that kind of changed my whole perspective about my involvement and it was just real simple
00:49:07i was like hey man you know they trying to tell me to be accountable and responsible man
00:49:11it ain't my fault man if they wouldn't do what they did the one thing he said that changed
00:49:16everything was why you just didn't drive off i i didn't have no comeback for that
00:49:26so like i say even now you know i try to do you know everything i can to uh
00:49:33take account for you know the actions that i cause you know it's kind of hard i don't really like to
00:49:40show no emotions because of when i was a kid it wasn't cool to do that like i would always get
00:49:45you know put down or whatnot for that you know
00:49:53you were young i mean you were a kid your thinking was in there you couldn't process what was going on
00:50:01if this system we're going through here was out there in every school to sit kids down and to get
00:50:07their feelings and their pain and their suffering it could help that whole lot of kid but now i get
00:50:13educated after the crime before the crime would have been good but it's after the fact and you
00:50:20carry so much and i know it's heavy on you but i commend you for the growth you're doing now
00:50:27i just think it's amazing that what you see in houston i think other people seeing you
00:50:32a lot of men will say that have participated in transformative groups how accountability can be
00:50:47really liberating itself like deeply deeply like walking in the truth of what you've done can be a
00:50:52really liberating feeling at the same time they're still incarcerated their bodies are incarcerated and
00:50:59there's complexity that's hard so there's longing and desire and there's scarcity and that's really
00:51:05tough what's so powerful about the sitting in a circle for 72 weeks with a bunch of people
00:51:13um is that you're going through like the layers of suffering and regret and remorse
00:51:19and yet there is something beautiful that happens you know in being in human relationship to each
00:51:25other and trying to repair um what was broken ideas about how to respond differently have to be developed
00:51:33and practiced and in that journey someone will heal and transform and their story will change
00:51:46and they will change going through the vogue program with jamie i mean she called me out on my
00:51:54shit she allowed me this opportunity to not sit in the role as a victim like i felt like in that circle
00:52:03in that space i finally found my voice and part of my voice was saying hey look at myself like yeah a lot
00:52:10of shit was going on in my home and how did i contribute to that and just it felt so freeing
00:52:19about a couple weeks after the training i actually got really sick and within
00:52:26four to six weeks of that training i was actually diagnosed with cancer
00:52:30so i found this work that i really wanted to do right as i also got this diagnosis
00:52:38that supposedly is supposed to be a terminal my doctors sometimes tell me that they do
00:52:47think i will die from my cancer prematurely um so i they're a part of my life is those conversations
00:52:57but a much bigger part of my life is just the miracle of this human transformation
00:53:03what was offered to me through jamie and the vogue program i wanted to offer whatever i could
00:53:09and then from there i felt like the transformation we call it or the shift like started taking place
00:53:15i just feel so alive in my work and in the beauty of it and the grace of it
00:53:22it's like going out on the wings of angels in a certain kind of way
00:53:26i have been this really lucky person i got to see so much of this
00:53:38so this is daddy bear and my mom made this out of dan's uniform shirt gabby used to put little
00:53:51keepsakes and knickknacks in there and she clung to this bear this was a
00:54:00really really special thing that my mom did for us
00:54:08dan and i met at a gun store i was actually working there behind the gun counter
00:54:15he is really cute and i flirted and i actually it was funny because i showed him how to chamber around
00:54:26in a 45 auto with one hand and i'm sure he already knew that but he was just having fun watching me
00:54:36do this ridiculous thing but it totally works so whatever
00:54:47i was a hardliner i labeled myself a conservative gun rights barbecue queen
00:54:56and then when he became a police officer it was even more cemented in my thinking
00:55:02after my my big letdown i'm just feeling lost like dan's death was meaningless it's just a complete
00:55:15waste of of his wonderful life and this amazing man that that he was and that was not okay with me
00:55:25that something positive had to happen but i had no idea how to do that
00:55:34after nine years of reflection and soul searching dion finds some relief from the pain of dan's death
00:55:41even shades of forgiveness for the man who killed him
00:55:46she tries to have a facilitated victim offender dialogue with irving
00:55:51but is prevented due to his appeal process
00:55:57her quest for healing leads her to the vogue program at san quentin and the possibility of
00:56:02becoming a surrogate victim inside the prison
00:56:07the first step is an interview to see if she is ready
00:56:10what i really want to do now is make something positive come out of my husband's death and me
00:56:19being a part of what you're doing i really feel like it would help me get there i'd like to be able
00:56:27to explore with you the fact is it irwin irving irving you know the fact that he's on death row and where
00:56:36your feelings are about that and um uh when i did i did write irving a letter and i brought it
00:56:43his attorney she read it to him but she couldn't tell me what he said yeah and would you be willing
00:56:52to share the letter with me yeah yeah absolutely i have it dear irving i've tried many times to write
00:56:59this letter and never managed to get past the first line first this is not a therapy session for myself
00:57:07some selfish attempt to bring closure to a tragic episode of my life second i want
00:57:29second i want to say that i forgive you
00:57:35i'm pretty confident that you didn't envision your life turning out this way and i'm sorry that it has
00:57:44finally i want to say that i'm sorry
00:57:48i deeply regret
00:57:51my part in making people see you as less than human
00:57:59as a waste of space deserving every ounce of misery that one can endure i no longer feel that way
00:58:10about you
00:58:15and now realize that we all make decisions that result in terrible suffering for ourselves
00:58:22you and i are not different in that regard
00:58:25i have found my peace i'm writing this in the hope that you will find yours sincerely
00:58:38i want to talk about when you got really flooded with emotion because for us in this work
00:58:46that that's where we see the real transformation taking place is in the depth of that feeling
00:58:55yeah and um so i'm i'm wondering if also some of those tears were connected to
00:59:09some kind of profound remorse around having played a part in putting him on death row
00:59:16i don't think i realize how bad i feel about that
00:59:33how bad i feel about that
00:59:41that's exactly what it is
00:59:42i put so much effort in every possible way that i could participate in him
00:59:56dying at the hands of the state i did it
00:59:59and here's here's the odd thing that hurt people hurt people and this is the place where your two
01:00:08lives intersect yeah because what you did on that penalty phase and everything you did to help
01:00:16support a death sentence it came out of all of your own suffering right and having lost down
01:00:25what he did to damn came out of his own suffering unprocessed and unresolved and
01:00:33maybe even unknown to him but just like the moment that he took down his life
01:00:39but it's not the summation of what his life is and who he is the same is true for you right
01:00:46right that it's just a step you took on a journey right to come to turn with
01:00:52with dan's murder so the you know the freedom i have
01:01:01is um is to make that right is to restore that injustice that that i participated in
01:01:11and i plan on taking advantage of that
01:01:13some survivors are led to believe that the criminal legal system as it currently operates
01:01:24will give them justice because we have been told that punishment that the state punishing people
01:01:30is the only option for accountability if you're made to believe that that's the only way you're
01:01:35gonna get justice and then that's what you're gonna go for
01:01:42six months after her interview with jamie dion attends a vogue circle inside san quentin
01:01:50dion's vogue meeting is just 50 yards from san quentin's death row
01:01:56irving ramirez the man who murdered her husband is there awaiting his execution
01:02:05i really just appreciate everybody showing up
01:02:13and i'm wondering if we should just maybe start with a brief check-in
01:02:17no hi i'm sam
01:02:21mike checking in good morning everybody
01:02:26nate doing pretty good happy to be here
01:02:29dion i'm just looking forward to what unfolds today
01:02:38along with sharing a timeline and a letter of forgiveness
01:02:42the crime impact statement is another tool to help acknowledge the harm one has caused
01:02:48at 20 sane shot a 17 year old killing him and injuring three bystanders he was sentenced to 35
01:02:56years to life for first degree murder sane also became a survivor when his sister was killed while
01:03:03he was in prison my nephew
01:03:09that attended a high school he told me he's been bullied and been punked by some some gang members
01:03:17he asked me to come and you know pick him up
01:03:19a car pulls up right behind us about six hispanic gang members got out the car and rushed us
01:03:29he came to me for backup we end up both getting assaulted
01:03:35it was two days later that i went on a rampage looking for these guys
01:03:40i knew is wrong what we were out to do going out there being a almost like a hunter and a prey
01:03:53but i did it anyways just as we got close enough i told him to slow down slow down
01:03:59i lean out the passenger side window and i fired
01:04:09probably six rounds
01:04:15it didn't hit me at the time but i actually
01:04:20saw when i caught one of the guys eyes and that was one of his last moments that
01:04:25he had up life that he had
01:04:32my nephew i feel as though i guided him in the wrong path he ended up also doing life in prison
01:04:45for richard and his family
01:04:46he was uh survived by a mom a dad and a sister
01:04:54i took any opportunity that that he would have had to be a father
01:05:02a husband i don't know if this will ever make anything right me doing the work
01:05:10me helping others there's still something that hangs over me
01:05:18that i feel that i could never make right there's a life that's been lost because of me
01:05:22i just have a kind of a
01:05:37in a in a different way a similar type of um loss and shame and regret um
01:05:47and so it kind of hit me thank you
01:05:59i don't know how else to repay them back you back society back i don't
01:06:07but i just want them and everyone has to know that this is eating me up inside
01:06:13and i don't know how to do that
01:06:17since you have it have been on both ends of
01:06:24of of a killing you're you committed the crime and then your sister was murdered do you
01:06:33do you feel like that affects your ability to identify as a family survivor
01:06:40i feel that how can i be a victim when i'm the one who caused this great suffering through everybody
01:06:52and yes it does help it helped me understand the impact the pain the loss the sadness
01:07:03that other people have to endure
01:07:04and how do you feel toward the person who took your sister's life
01:07:13has this affected how you feel about him
01:07:18if he was to ever cross my path
01:07:23probably would have hurt him
01:07:26that was then i can't say that now
01:07:29i don't know what i would do now but i i wouldn't touch him
01:07:38i know that he has a story too
01:07:40you made this statement about how can you make it right and i took it upon myself
01:07:48to kill somebody to hurt somebody
01:07:52now i owe it to society i owe it to me
01:07:56to understand what i did to own up to what i did that's the only way we could give back we can never
01:08:02never bring that person back i don't deserve nothing nitto will never come back to life
01:08:09the programs that i learned in here in vogue i sit with my kids them in the visiting room
01:08:13and i teach them it i asked them what they feel and explain to me what happened that day
01:08:18and i try to use the work to have help them guide them that's my my debt to society
01:08:25and it hurts because it took coming to prison for us to wake up it's not prison did it but something
01:08:34clicked it was that aha moment that woke us up and to realize what we did so i appreciate your truth
01:08:41and i appreciate your growth continue to do it
01:08:46you're welcome
01:08:47i just want to see these programs expand into every prison from what i understand there's a
01:09:01three-year waiting list of men who want to get into these programs and do this amazing self-discovery
01:09:10and there shouldn't be a three-day waiting period i've been on prison yards where there was
01:09:17maybe an anger management class that could facilitate 25 people in a yard that held a thousand people
01:09:24why is it that people are more likely to be paroled when they've done a bunch of programming
01:09:29it means that we should have programming if there are people in prison that are really coming into
01:09:35deep transformation and having such levels of remorse and regret and empathy and compassion and then
01:09:42and giving back and really doing that work so that their lives don't go to waste and maybe hopefully
01:09:49in honor of the life that was lost also it's a shame that we over incarcerate in the way that we do
01:09:57theon begins reaching out through advocacy and education she joins a bipartisan coalition to
01:10:06promote criminal justice reform she shares her experiences at tedx san quentin represents
01:10:13survivors at a congressional briefing in washington dc and adds her voice to senators the deputy attorney
01:10:21general and leaders in the criminal justice reform movement at a bipartisan coalition for public safety
01:10:27event and looking back now i think the thing most responsible for separating me from love and compassion
01:10:38and understanding and forgiveness was seeking my healing in the misery and death of another human being
01:10:46it's really sad that these programs are so rare outside of san quentin what if there was a drug or alcohol
01:11:01treatment program available when he was going in and out of the system how might my life be
01:11:08be different i hate that i have to be here i hate that i'm in this position but i can't just sit here
01:11:16and do nothing and hope that our current system will somehow miraculously heal the trauma that is going on
01:11:26over and over and over again in our state i ask that you set aside what you think you know about incarcerated
01:11:34people i'm asking you to be open to the possibility that people can and do change i did we need to
01:11:44embrace who victims are no matter what they look like no matter where they come from no matter how little
01:11:51money they have how little education they have
01:11:53if you look they're usually the ones filling up our prisons heal communities stop punishing people
01:12:06if our model worked how come my husband's dead it doesn't make any sense
01:12:16the promise of public safety has not been delivered i'm just going to go out of turn for a second um
01:12:24does anybody here think that she didn't just have the biggest impact of this entire day
01:12:31if dion and everything that she's gone gone through can arrive at where she's arrived at i don't think the
01:12:37the rest of us have any excuses um you look on twitter people saying how can you guys work with
01:12:43conservatives well uh you know here's one we're going to have to open our hearts up a lot bigger
01:12:50on both sides of the aisle if we're going to get across this finish line
01:12:58i have yet to meet somebody in prison that wasn't first a victim for
01:13:05most of their life if not all of their life there was so much trauma chaos loss so much impact from
01:13:13all of that and it just built up inside of that person until eventually they were filled with rage and
01:13:23at some point they started acting that out and directing it towards others and i think
01:13:30the possibility of that equation exists for all people but i think that most people in society
01:13:37naively believe that only certain people are capable of that kind of violence
01:13:43hey hi
01:13:55all right
01:13:57with jamie's health continuing to fade the men inside san quentin organized one last circle to honor her
01:14:04yeah bringing her friends and family together with those she meant so much to inside the prison
01:14:15so um i'm jamie
01:14:17and uh particularly to the men in blue that are talking about how emotional they feel
01:14:29that really
01:14:32i love hearing that because that's a big part of what the journey is is
01:14:39tapping back in to feelings and integrating thought and feeling and action which is consciousness
01:14:47there's something that i often said to people in my group there's two things one is the way out is
01:14:54through so the work is not about walking away from what's painful but walking into it
01:15:02the other is that whether i'm physically here or not
01:15:06we can always reconnect through the work and what we learn together and so that connection never really
01:15:19has to be broken
01:15:23jamie passed away three weeks later
01:15:27in lieu of flowers she requested donations be sent to prison rehabilitative programs
01:15:35we can't go back and rewind the clock for ourselves but we can surely remove some of the
01:15:41obstacles that's in the way for other people right so let's get that that wisdom let's get that lived
01:15:48experience right because i don't care and i say this as humbly as i can i don't care how many years a
01:15:56person has went to school to study um prisons and and and criminology right you don't know more
01:16:06than somebody who has spent 20 30 and 40 years inside that system i think that if society opened
01:16:13up its arms and offered us a real seat at the table that we could assist in the real change that
01:16:20needs to happen in this country like we're we're at this point now where like we want society
01:16:29to help us help our community and we can't do it alone
01:16:35we can't do it alone
01:16:36after 26 years in prison sam johnson is released on parole
01:16:48i'm sorry i've been away from you for all these years
01:17:18i used to ask this question to people
01:17:48and if you want the person who's going to come home and be um a law-buying tax
01:18:18paying asset to his community then more has to be done to not only just provide opportunities
01:18:28for people in prison but opportunities for them when they come home and
01:18:35opportunities for our young people so that they don't wind up in prison in the first place
01:18:39i really hope people can really understand how that influence comes back to the community
01:18:48i would like to just try to help as many people as i possibly can especially the youth to keep
01:18:56them from going where i went through in prison
01:18:59and like you walking with this sign on your head i'm a prisoner and stuff but people won't know it until
01:19:07you tell them i'll walk with people talk with people go to church you know they know my story but
01:19:13but certain people don't know it until you tell them they say what you're such a nice person you said
01:19:19that a lot of work had a lot of work to change a lot of work
01:19:23there you go i thought you wasn't gonna show up how you doing bro what's up to see you again
01:19:33what's that you ready yeah i'm ready all right soon after his release sam honors his commitment
01:19:40to give back to the youth in his community hey sam i want you to come up here for a second and joins
01:19:46up with troy williams oh you can sit right here growing up i did not have my dad you know he was
01:19:57in jail and i grew up with like that anger and that sadness when i first came on my daughter 18
01:20:04years old i had a whole lot of rage when she would get angry she speak it out and you can hear the rage
01:20:12and the anger and the voice so we sit down we process that her anger and her rage go deeper
01:20:19than what's on the surface that day it's not that day it's by me not being in her life by me not being
01:20:26a father i have four girls and one boy and my daughters them teaching me about love they teach me
01:20:33about pain dad and what because you weren't there that i miss and i have my grandson and i'm molding and
01:20:39i'm shaping until a little boy every day i love her the true lessons that resonate um with me have come
01:20:55from actually living the experience those moments with um with other men and you know watch them laugh
01:21:09watch them cry um watch them wrestle with the dynamics of their life um and to watch someone model
01:21:23what transformation looked like
01:21:27i found a mechanism that allowed me to not only just dig deep but it actually gave
01:21:39words to what my spirit knew
01:21:53so
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01:23:13Grazie a tutti.
01:23:43Grazie a tutti.
01:24:13Grazie a tutti.
01:24:43Grazie a tutti.
01:25:13Grazie a tutti.
01:25:43Grazie a tutti.
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