Legacy deal 2025 Belfast News Letter

News Letter

The Tanaiste (deputy prime minister of Ireland) Simon Harris, and the Northern Ireland Secretary, Hilary Benn, answer questions from the News Letter editor Ben Lowry about their new legacy deal.  Ben asked about it being an apparent UK capitulation to Ireland after it sued Britain over its handling of the past. The video was taken at Hillsborough Castle on Friday September 19 2025  #PoliticalDebate #IrishPolitics #LegacyFramework #PeaceProcess #NorthernIreland

Transcript

00:00This question is mostly for the Secretary of State, but Tonister, if you want to come in on it.

00:05We just had confirmation that Ireland, which is suing the country of which you're a Cabinet Minister,

00:12I'm not aware of you ever even having criticised that case, but maybe you did.

00:16But certainly there was no talk of retaliatory action, and a lot of people will think that you have appeased

00:21all this gushing talk about good relations, a country that sued you.

00:25Also, in 2005, this context is very important to this case, sorry, just briefly.

00:31In 2005, you were in Tony Blair's government, who proposed a fuller amnesty.

00:37I don't know whether internally you opposed that. We did ask you about that the other day.

00:40You didn't answer it. Yet when the Conservative government proposed a lesser conditional amnesty,

00:46you were totally opposed to it, despite the fact that Ireland sued you when its former Justice Minister,

00:53not just a politician. Its former Justice Minister said that it had a de facto amnesty for IRA terrorists,

01:00which most people would believe there's no effort whatsoever on the part of the Irish government

01:03to pursue that. And I just wanted you to answer that point about that this is a capitulation to them.

01:09And to the Tonister, you sounded very high-minded that you took this action and you exhausted every other route

01:15and you didn't want to do it. But what about the fact that you took the action in the context

01:20of a de facto amnesty for the IRA? And there's not even a process in this that I can see

01:25to address this. Ireland's asked to have the fullest possible cooperation to address, for example,

01:31the fact that for 30 years, 103 out of 110 extradition requests were refused,

01:38as a result of which certainly our readers would believe many Protestants along the border were massacred.

01:43And I just wanted to ask you both about that context.

01:48This is not a capitulation of anybody to anybody else. And we can continue to go over the pain,

01:58the suffering, the problems, the difficulties of the past. But for the families who are sitting at home today,

02:06what they're interested in is, am I getting an answer to what happened?

02:11And that is about the future. And at some point, we have to move beyond the pain and the suffering

02:17and the events of the past and fashion a way of dealing with this problem,

02:24which is exactly what this document does.

02:28Secondly, look, I'd say on the interstate case, of course it's a matter for the Irish government,

02:32but I'm quite confident that the arrangements that I intend to put in place will make the body

02:37that we're going to reform human rights compliant. And since, as I understand,

02:41the base of the case is what the last government created was not human rights compliant,

02:45which the courts themselves have agreed with, well, the problem will have been solved.

02:52But it is a matter for the Irish government.

02:53On your question about the 2005 legislation, I would disagree with your characterisation of what it offered

03:01at the time, and what was contained in the government's Legacy Act.

03:06Because having read what was proposed, as you know, that 2005 bill was eventually withdrawn,

03:14because it had no support in Northern Ireland. Well, that's rather familiar, isn't it?

03:18Because that's why we're standing here, because the Legacy Act had no support in Northern Ireland at all.

03:24And what that would have provided for would have enabled people still to be prosecuted and convicted,

03:31but not then to have served any sentence. And therefore, the suggestion has been made that

03:36the immunity provisions are somehow a lesser version of what was in 2005.

03:41In my view, the reverse is the case, because the Legacy Act proposals would have meant people

03:48would have complete immunity from prosecution and would have faced no process at all.

03:52And that is a fundamental difference compared to what was put forward 20 years ago.

03:57Yeah, look, I'd simply add, I don't believe we'd be in a situation where we'd have to take

04:03an interesting case had we had the sort of meaningful engagement with the British government

04:08then that we've had over the last nine months. I also believe we could have actually seen

04:13the cross-border cooperation and indeed Ireland's legislation, as we now intend to legislate for,

04:19to cooperate with the Legacy Commission, which I think is really important for people

04:23right across the island. I don't come to this suggesting that anybody has, you know,

04:30any sort of kind of monopony here. There's things that we need to do across the island

04:34and across the islands to bring healing, to bring truth, to bring justice.

04:39But what I would say, and I would say very firmly, is we in Angard of Shea Kona in our jurisdiction

04:44do and will investigate any unresolved cases that happened in our jurisdiction and indeed

04:51would welcome any complaints in relation to any unresolved criminal activity.

04:57And the establishment of a legacy unit in Angard of Shea Kona is a further step, I think,

05:01in recognising that and recognising the importance of it.

05:04And I've had meetings with victims, families, with survivors, from a range of traditions,

05:11a range of different backgrounds, and I've been very struck by what they've said.

05:13And I hope that everybody who brings up this doctrine in today, well, see, this is not just

05:17a list of things the British government's going to do, but there's also a number of things

05:21that the Irish government is committing to do, to play our part in this legacy framework.

05:25But Irish, sorry, Irish Republican terrorists speak freely about their terrorism in your

05:30territory, to honest to you.

05:32We've gone through a peace process in this country.

05:36There's lots of blame and responsibility for heinous acts to go across, and I despise terrorist

05:41organisations and terrorism.

05:43But we also have laws of violence that we apply with if you're a favour in our country.

05:48Shonine from Marriage Times.

05:50Good afternoon.

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