Tell What You Really Think Season 01 Episode 04

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Tell What You Really Think Season 01 Episode 04 #Cineva USA https://www.dailymotion.com/Cineva

Transcript

00:00it affects half of the world's population for up to a third of their

00:06life and yet the centuries was rarely talked about or not anymore I think

00:12menopause gets a really bad rap your perimenopause is showing three

00:17supplements I take to feel great on menopause this week we are going inside

00:21the menopause gold rush I use badge of honor and the new generation smashing

00:28taboos and shouting from the rooftops is it finally making up the decades of

00:39neglect we're just catastrophizing aging bodies women are being preyed upon by

00:44companies that are making products that say they do stuff that they don't do plus

00:49the groundbreaking science that could change everything you can have at least

00:54a decade of delay in menopause and if you do it even earlier than that you could

01:00potentially have 30 40 years of delay and technically eliminate menopause if

01:06you've done this early enough come on I should have checked if you were a

01:14handshake or a hug person all right so everybody's gonna seat grab a seat sit

01:20down now are you actually going to eat because people get all nervous when

01:24they're presented with food joining me tonight author Kathy let actually you're

01:28so cute as long as we have you for dessert and menopause doctor Liz Raymond I'm the

01:36closest so I get the biggest do you want to know what's on the menu

01:42from apparently me fashion entrepreneur Julia Brown because that's one of the

01:47things I do well obviously journalist and women's health advocate Shelley okay to

01:56say that we give zero fucks yes and traditional Chinese medicine

02:00practitioner Anissa Owl I think we can help ourselves um so thank you all for

02:07coming oh suddenly you all went all serious didn't you we're just paying

02:10attention to you I just wanted to start with something that I don't think

02:13happens enough on national television I want to hear your menopause symptoms your

02:19face but your eyes went so wide then do you want to start got what's up to you

02:24where do you want to start Kathy well first of all you sweat more than Donald

02:28Trump doing a Sudoku and the other thing I hated was the brain fog I was on the

02:36phone to my sister one day and I was going I've lost my phone I've lost my phone I can't

02:40cope without my phone and she goes what are you on but a doctor I mean we've got

02:47proper medical people can back this up a doctor told me recently that yes when

02:51women lose some cut some cognitive ability during the menopause we just go

02:56down to a level where most men are

02:59what about you well mine was a big surprise because I went into perimenopause

03:11at 45 but I thought I'd never heard the word perimenopause before I thought

03:16menopause was just for old ladies with gray hair and they had hot flushes in

03:20their period stop so I was a fox it wasn't even on my radar so my symptoms were

03:28actually pretty horrific perimenopause or depression and I have never had

03:32mental health issues before in my life so I had the depression the anxiety didn't

03:37have hot flushes I was just like three degrees hotter than I'd ever been for a

03:41long time and then and we are gonna have to talk periods and stuff here but I had

03:47an Armageddon period where I flooded through my clothes and so I went to a GP a

03:54female GP who also didn't know anything about perimenopause and she said oh with

04:00this bleeding it might be cancer oh my gosh so I was sent off for an internal

04:05ultrasound and when I got the results back she said great news it's not the big

04:09C you just must be stressed maybe you should take up a hobby so I then didn't

04:16get any help for nine months till I was at the point where I was circling the drain

04:20and considering self-harm it was that bad and I am very lucky I have an earth

04:26angel of a husband and he I got to the point where I wanted to quit my job I was

04:31having trouble getting out of bed and he just sat me down and he said I don't

04:36think there's anything wrong with you but I think there's something wrong with the

04:39chemicals in your brain you haven't been yourself let's go see a doctor together

04:43amazing and it makes me want to cry but it was and that's when I got help

04:49Julia how was the experience for you well I discovered that I was perimenopausal

04:55because we have to make that distinction right we need to know the word that's

04:58right during Covid but initially I thought I mistook my perimenopausal

05:03symptoms for Covid symptoms oh so I had a hot flush and the night sweats and I

05:12also had really bad headaches so at that time we were only doing telehealth right

05:16so I was telling my then GP because I've been through quite a few yes yes about my

05:25symptoms and he actually said I think you're actually menopausal a lot of my

05:30symptoms were like brain symptoms so even though I did initially have a hot like a

05:36hot flush and a bit of the night sweats as you probably hear from people it it's

05:42not like you just have one set of symptoms and that's it with me it was like

05:47seemed to be after those initial things which I thought were bodily things I've

05:51since found out they're all to do with the brain then it was brain fog which was

05:56really bad and it's oh god sorry I don't want to it's so scary sometimes when you

06:02can't and you think am I getting dementia it's so scary when you as I say the

06:06words going down the hallway and it's not got to the door that's but I was having

06:11terrible time with brain fog the next stage was the intolerance stage where I was

06:19just like just so angry like picking fights and like your amazing angel

06:25husband my husband very gently said to me you're just having a go at sorry I don't

06:32want to get upset you're having a go our daughter and she's done nothing wrong like

06:36this isn't like you I think you need to go back and see someone about this anyway so

06:43I just want to bring in dr. Liz here perimenopause menopause what is it the

06:52people should know more about the difference between them menopause is just

06:56one day in your life and it's the day that you have your last menstrual period

07:01and you can't establish that until you've had no periods for 12 months so it's a

07:06retrospective diagnosis is what we call it whereas perimenopause is the period of

07:11time peri in the Greek language or from the Greek language means surrounding so

07:17it surrounds the actual day of your menopause and it goes from when your

07:21symptoms start to the year after the menopause so it sort of goes around the

07:27perimenopause and that can last between you know on average four to six years but

07:33the actual range is from 0 to 11 years because 20% of ladies don't a decade yeah

07:39exactly I'm feeling like shit but not for everybody not for everybody but for a

07:43lot of women can I ask there's another part of this as well which is early

07:48menopause which is something you've experienced as well can you talk yes I

07:51ten percent of ladies will get what's called an early menopause between the

07:54age of 40 and 45 I unfortunately experienced the perimenopause you know 40

08:00year old clinical practice working on a board and public speaking three young kids

08:06renovating house elderly mother corporate husband so not much going on

08:11there this is a typical story juggling everything we juggle so much we could be

08:19in the circus on that yeah exactly anyway I was in a board meeting and I was speaking and

08:26boom I got a biggest first hot flush sweating couldn't find my words lost my word fluency and

08:34palpitations and I came out of the boardroom afterwards with a colleague and

08:39only for a few years and he said what went on there you know you suddenly developed

08:43anxiety it looked like and I said I have no idea wow that was incredible I'd worked in

08:50ups and gynae I'd done qualifications for the Royal College of ups and gynae and I was

08:55treating people with menopause this is 12 years ago but I was in denial as well I

09:01thought it's stress and I thought this can't be happening to me anyway I got diagnosed with

09:05menopause and early menopause and got onto treatment and I was lucky but I was well informed at that

09:11point anyway can we just establish you that God is a man yes because these are all the things that

09:17women go through first of all you're taken hostage while your hormones as a teenager when you you know

09:21you get your periods once a month then you've got pregnancy where everything swells to sumo wrestler

09:25proportions then you have you know childbirth where you stretch your vagina the customer in what five six

09:30kilometers then you have mastitis then you have the menopause and then just when everything goes

09:35quiet you grow a beard well thank you um I want to bring Anissa in here though because Anissa you're

09:41in your early 50s I am I'm 53 okay are you experiencing symptoms at the moment no I'm not

09:47I kind of represent the other people who actually are breezing through perimenopause I uh I have noticed

09:56some differences within my own menstrual cycle but none of these symptoms that you ladies are talking

10:02about so the fact that you're not experiencing some of the symptoms that everyone else has here

10:08what do you put that down to I have kind of investigated throughout my life different techniques

10:13of how to maintain my own health going into menopause being a Chinese medicine practitioner myself

10:20yeah so the focus within Chinese medicine is very much about kidney and liver health and also your

10:27energy reserves as you're going into menopause so that's been my focus going into this I look after

10:34my sleep I look after my lifestyle I moderate my stress levels so there's been techniques that I've

10:40used throughout my 40s to deal with stress like I've had the stresses that you've had we use we use wine

10:47yeah the real stuff yes wine's a good one yeah so I would largely say through natural health how does

10:54Chinese traditional medicine view this period of your life well the term second spring is used with

11:00menopause so we often think of it as a time where the woman gets to focus on herself on her passions

11:06that's on her interests menopause is very natural it's just part of life so that's how we view it

11:12rather than seeing it as a pathogen or a disease can I jump in yeah go for it with respect um yes it's

11:20natural but it doesn't mean that people like us need to suffer no so when I have spoken to world experts

11:27about menopause I had a brilliant example from Dr Kelly Casperson who is a urologist from America and she

11:34said we have a bit of a strong push for it's just natural you can you know put up with it she said

11:41if you want it to be natural a natural life everyone hand over their reading glasses because your eyesight

11:46deteriorating is natural but we take care of our eyes yeah so for me natural doesn't mean we have

11:53to suffer and that's so I would say that Chinese medicine would actually endorse that yeah okay yeah

11:57everyone's journey and experience is so different only 20 percent have severe severe symptoms 20 percent

12:06have no symptoms or extremely mild symptoms whereas 80 percent of ladies the majority have no mild or

12:14moderate symptoms so whilst we represent um the 20 percent having severe symptoms I don't want to

12:21still fear into everyone watching no absolutely but at the same time no I'm sorry but I was through

12:27the cracks so I'm that 20 percent and no I could easily not be here so for sure I was sure that the

12:34pendulum went too far and we educated everybody there's a lot of value in this in hearing the

12:40narratives of the people who've had severe symptoms because that's what make change isn't it yeah because

12:45I've been my mother's generation they talked about I remember them being in a cardigan coven in the

12:50corner of the kitchen talking about the change you know as a Voldemort was coming I think what's the

12:56change everyone was terrified my generation have helped take that we take the stigma out of

13:06menopause yes talked about it openly for the first time yes you know now this is amazing that now there's

13:11a TV show where we're addressing it and also that we've got a male host and I want to say how much I

13:16love that although by the way you'll be ovulating by the end I may have already started who knows

13:22actually I did want to ask about that did the men in your various lives did they know anything about

13:27menopause they didn't know anything but we had some great empathetic husbands I want more men talking

13:34about menopause because it's not a women's issue it's a society issue yeah it affects workplaces it affects

13:40you know your loved ones your sisters your mothers your you know everyone so therefore

13:46we need men as allies in this and you know we also need them to know about it so they can

13:51sometimes spot the symptoms because when you're in it it's hard to see it and I wrote a novel called

13:57HRT husband replacement therapy because a lot of women leave their husbands while they're going through

14:03the menopause because of the lack of understanding and sympathy and empathy secret women's business

14:08doesn't help women yeah we need to talk about it that's interesting menopause is perhaps

14:15surprisingly extremely rare in the animal kingdom only a handful of species are known to outlive

14:20their fertility most of them whales take the orca scientists believe that by going into menopause

14:28female orcas can focus on being good grandmas you know spoiling me grandkids with fish the first

14:35recorded reference we have to menopause comes from around 350 BCE when Aristotle wrote that women

14:42could expect to go into menopause around their 40th birthday that is if they lived that long in the

14:481500s there is a book about witchcraft that claimed that menopausal women were prone to dark thoughts

14:54usually associated with witches and things didn't get better in a hurry in Victorian England menopause

15:01were seen to cause insanity and could land you in an asylum supposed cures included bloodletting and

15:08leeching with the 20th century in came the idea that menopause was a disease that could be cured with

15:15drugs and the marketing it seems was targeted just as much to men to stop their wives becoming and I

15:21stress this is a quote dull and unattractive and to make them quote more pleasant to live with yeah

15:28the thing is even late into the 20th century these ideas that menopause is just in your head

15:35yeah that didn't go away the lot of the symptoms are psychological and not physical is the fact that

15:43we are afraid that we are losing our youth that the wrinkles are coming up that the men won't find us

15:49attractive but I think more and more women are finding out that after all if women are aging men are

15:55aging as well I mean you know I see a lot of bald-headed men around the place big tummy because

16:02of the beer drinking they're not such a hot side to themselves and the taboos around menopause yeah

16:09they didn't go away either many women in my study they said their girlfriends weren't all that interested

16:16that if they mentioned that um I've had a diagnosis of menopause that's why you know that's why I've been

16:23feeling the way I feel um their friends would say oh well you know that's nice okay and change the subject

16:30why do you think it was stigmatized for so long I think part of it was that women thought that once

16:38they hit the menopause they they had passed their amuse by date yes that that decided that if you're

16:44no longer fecund if you're no longer fertile what use were you a very low number of women will actually

16:50raise the issue in a consult and that's so sad and I always bring it up and they're so thankful because

16:54they and then they'll say they didn't feel they could ever raise that with somebody can I just

16:58mention that Liz is a unicorn exactly so I I feel a lot of medical professionals minimize women's pain and

17:06women's problems and I think part of that problem is that we don't have enough education for GPs I

17:13understand that completely can you tell mark how many hours GPs study uh menopause because there were

17:19headlines last year that GPs in Australia only get one hour of training in menopause I'm not sure

17:25that's true I'm not sure that's true I have had many GPs tell me they've had zero I can just that's her

17:30job I feel like I feel like Liz is like the one doctor on the table let's give her let's let's give you a bit of

17:35space you don't have to answer every grievance of the medical industry no but I just want to finish

17:42so so Shelley yes GPs definitely need to be not dismissing women and and understand the differences

17:50for different population groups the different average ages of menopause all the different

17:54possible presentations and be able to manage if I could I could just say that I think there's

18:01the perception of how much training needs to be done at different stages of your medical career

18:06needs to be because I've been asked should why isn't it in the medical student curriculum

18:11as in it is it was when I was there you have to learn about menopause but what depth you need to

18:17learn about things it's just like what depth do you learn cardiology or obs and gynae so

18:23yeah but no I don't know I get really frustrated because I have lived experience of having completely

18:31appalling appalling behavior by GPs saying yeah it's just I think they I think even and I am not

18:38attacking I am just suggesting there is a big please do better please do better yes for sure

18:45and that's why this is so fabulous I don't want to have to flip this table but I'm right please don't

18:49it's a really lovely table no so I'm not dismissing that at all I'm acknowledging this I don't know I

18:54need a little bit more estrogen right now but this is why the narrative and the voice of women

19:02now of our age and is going to change things and it has changed things after the break what did

19:09you buy so many things in a brown paper bag that's a worry menopause remedies under the microscope no

19:16evidence there's no data not effective women are being preyed upon by companies that are making

19:23products that say they do stuff that they don't do and the great menopause gold rush this stuff is

19:31magic it's like whipped cream for your face why doesn't she monetize it it's if a man did that he'd be an

19:38entrepreneur I just had to come out here and get something off my chest I'm not afraid of perimenopause

19:47anymore menopause is getting a Hollywood makeover this stuff is magic it's like whipped cream for

19:57your face I use badge of honor it's been described as the menopause gold rush the global menopause market

20:06is said to be worth around 40 billion by the end of the decade but all of these pills and remedies

20:12do they actually work to find out I've enlisted leading endocrinologist dr. Susan Davis suddenly

20:19people have come out of the woodwork and self-proclaimed themselves of being menopause experts with minimal

20:25training and disseminating a lot of misinformation and creating a lot of confusion and potentially doing

20:32harm so I've been shopping oh good what did you buy so many things in a brown paper bag that's a

20:39worry in here is a bunch of products that claim to help the symptoms of menopause so this one has

20:48black cohosh in it okay so black cohosh in the really most robust studies not effective menopause tea

21:01yeah green tea no evidence that licorice root no evidence ginkgo bilba and cinnamon these are not

21:08things rose petals ginger root lavender flowers there's no evidence any of these they might might

21:16taste nice it might be calming but no so this is menopause skin cream so this is going to restore my

21:26skin apparently the main things that will restore skin and wrinkles is you know retinoic acid and the

21:33retinoids and I can't see any of those listed here this one has something called red clover in it

21:41promencil has been around for years no benefit for those and other symptoms hot flushes night sweats

21:46and the evidence for mood is there's no data chinese western herbal medicine it's got vitamin d in

21:54that's good for you so these are intimate wipes my goodness they're paraben free that's good great

22:02there is no evidence that using wipes for your vagina is going to improve your vaginal tissue

22:10i personally see no place for things like this i just think it's it's really clever marketing and

22:19women are being preyed upon by by companies that are making products that say they do stuff that they

22:28don't do and i think that's really wrong for women how have we ended up here that it's become such a

22:35contested space i think it's been a contested space because the medical fraternity dropped the ball

22:42american researchers shut down a major study into hormone replacement because of serious health

22:48concerns hormone replacement therapy or hrt has long been the first line of medical treatment for

22:54menopause symptoms the world's longest and largest clinical trial on hrt was abruptly cut short and the

23:01first headline blast 2002 was hrt increases breast cancer plastered across the world there were more

23:10adverse effects than beneficial effects and when i heard that i was quite frightened as time has passed

23:16and people have gone back and re-analyzed and re-looked at the data there is indeed a small statistically

23:24significant increase in risk of breast cancer with the formulations used in that study

23:30with the estrogen only arm hysterectomized women there was no increased risk of breast cancer

23:36but that was published after the first alarm bells went off and in the 18 years of follow-up

23:43what's been seen is basically there's no increased likelihood of dying from heart disease or breast

23:50cancer whether you do or don't take the hormone therapy in that study in all between 150 and 200

23:56000 australian women went off hrt after the scare many australian women have turned to alternative

24:03treatments we're definitely still experiencing a fallout from that study and i see that because i see

24:10women who are very reluctant to take hormone therapy because they're scared that there could be dangers in

24:15it and equally we are still encountering practitioners who will not prescribe because

24:22they believe it causes breast cancer and that was a fallout from that study because women

24:27were not taking hrt it opened up this big space that could be filled by over-the-counter products all

24:35right i like to keep things stupid simple three supplements that i think all women in perimenopause

24:40should be taking do you want to know why i feel so good well it's all in this tiny one a day pill

24:48i feel like at the moment menopause has been the most visible i can remember in my lifetime

24:54how do you feel about that shift i think it's fantastic to normalize conversation about

24:59life changes but i think there are a lot of people putting out there that menopause is likely to be

25:06a catastrophic experience for the majority of women it is not a catastrophic experience it's a life

25:12change for some women it's a relief if you've been having really heavy bleeding and suddenly you stop

25:18bleeding you've been having menstrual migraines and they stop for many women it's just even a non-event

25:24so it's great to talk about it but let's get the record straight about what's um evidence and what's

25:30not if you want more tips to be healthy on menopause make sure to follow me

25:37in the last year there were three separate women's health organizations that warned against

25:41and i'm going to quote here catastrophizing menopause i wonder what shirley thinks no yeah

25:48is that i mean is that fair is there is there a trend at the moment to catastrophize

25:56menopause do you think liz it's not being catastrophized okay it is that women have a

26:01voice and it's a very important it's a very important message that you know that will empower

26:08women change people's lives going forward i feel if we get this when people say catastrophizing all

26:13we're medicalizing menopause so to me i feel like that that needs to be anissa sorry one sec anissa

26:22as somebody here who's had a very different experience do you think some of the way menopause

26:27is talked about can be unhelpful can make people fearful of something definitely definitely i do

26:32think that if we keep talking about it and i think education is the big thing yes going into it

26:38a lot of women just it just comes upon them and they don't know what to do there are things that

26:44you can do like hrt but there's also things that you can do like natural medicine but they both

26:50need to be done correctly and a toy boy also excellent have you ever prescribed one of those leaves

26:59one hot toy boy

27:01i think also i'm i'm not a big believer for herbal medicine and and but i am a big believer for choice

27:09yes so as long as whoever's going through their perimenopause has made an educated choice i'm happy

27:16with that i've had acupuncture for my hot flushes and it worked so you know i just am not big on the

27:21herbs there's something else that's changed in the last couple years around menopause which is every

27:27celebrity under the sun is talking about it and i'm wondering how you feel that's changed the

27:32conversation the celebrities are very much involved in talking about it but also involved in commercial

27:37ventures as well as you've got you know drew barrymore screaming about it on the top of a roof now

27:43literally on her instagram don't say that dismissively no i'm not but i what i'm interested in is how it

27:50changes the conversation well it just means there is a conversation whereas once there wasn't

27:55so i i don't mind who wants to scream from the rooftops about it because the more we talk about

28:00it the more we take the stigma out of it so it can only be a good thing as far as i'm concerned

28:05as long as they don't when you say they're monetizing it as long as they're not they don't start

28:09promoting some airy fairy the feng shui your aura with this you know this a jade egg yeah a

28:18gwyneth yeah yes they don't go all gwyneth on it right but i think that's where respecting the

28:23evidence comes in yes you know respect the evidence respect the global consensus and what

28:29the best treatment there are a lot of celebrities that are actually giving great evidence-based

28:34information now the other thing about monetizing it so yeah naomi watts has a skin care range she has

28:41a lube called the vag of honor which i love it why doesn't she monetize it it's if a man did that he'd

28:48be an entrepreneur does it change does it does it well does it change the equation if they're also

28:54selling products so i'm curious does anyone else think it does change i think it depends what they're

28:58selling you know if they're selling supplements that are just expensive we like this is where i get

29:03so it depends on the on the product then is that what you're saying yeah yeah and how much medical

29:08evidence is is that is backing it up so if you're not getting information the right information from

29:13your doctor then you go to your friends and you discuss it with them and they'll be like well

29:18i heard that this this really works for me which has happened to me so this is the thing yes fair

29:22enough there's people trading off it but they're only trading off it because there's a gap yeah and i

29:29my mother was very much the soldier on stiff upper lip she was labia oh mom's gonna love that

29:40i don't think she says that way uh but when she went through it she was put on hrt and doing really

29:47well and then the whi study came out saying it caused breast cancer her doctor binned the hrt she went

29:54straight back into medical menopause and got no help no help at 75 she's still having hot flushes

30:02medically she's called a super flusher i think that's the term which is awful but that is the

30:07catastrophic effect of how that whi um study was sort of presented because it's affected a whole

30:14generation of women kathy did you ever try alternative treatments so talk me through what you tried i tried

30:19something called black cohosh yeah right well yeah i mean and i spent a fortune on vitamins and things

30:25i mean i might as well have just taken all that money put all that stuff in the bin taking all that

30:29money and giving it to a charitable cause i wasted a fortune until i talked to my girlfriends and they

30:36all just like just hrt hrt hrt so um and once i started taking hrt it was like rocket fuel and all it

30:43does is it takes you back to how you used to feel that's all it's doing is topping up your hormones to

30:48where you were before it all everything just evaporated so it's not it's not don't be einstein

30:54to work out why that works for you so i would just say to any woman watching i i mean i'm so sorry i'm

31:00just not into the herbal thing it's probably just that my my you know my mistakes but i would say just

31:07get on the hrt as fast as possible get your juices juices back and your joy and your energy and your zest

31:14and just go forth and be fabulous so the fact that i have a clinic and i see women that are on hrt

31:21speaks that it's not the golden bullet that solves every issue but is it important that you are seeing

31:28them and it's integrative rather than absolutely absolutely they can absolutely coexist yeah but i i

31:36think there's a point to be made about um the use of complementary and alternative medicines in the

31:40management of menopause and that's where you as a as a clinician who's um if you're doing a good

31:47menopause consult you use a good the evidence base the best treatment for menopause is um menopause

31:56hormone therapy it's the gold evidence base that's the gold standard but you really look at what herbal

32:03supplements um acupuncture they might have tried or what they want to try but you don't tell them it's

32:08going to fix the hot flushes there's no current evidence but i say to my women so long as it's

32:13doing no harm if you want to have that in your healthcare sort of treatment plan package um go and

32:20have acupuncture go and do yoga for all the other health benefits that that can bring and you you design

32:26it around the lady as an individual julia what was what's been your experience with hrt mht um so like

32:32you say it's not like a a cure-all like you like you know what i mean like yeah it was for me totally

32:39but i think it's so but like you say it was like from where like looking at my journal because i kept

32:44a journal of my symptoms and especially with my tolerance level and i think like you say you're

32:50allowed to be less tolerant as you get older that's right it definitely like that thing i told you about my

32:56family it's improved so much that that i do feel balanced so yes overall i just feel i feel myself

33:06shelly how different are you after hormone replacement therapy everything has changed for

33:11me and i i really love what what you said that it's not the golden ticket like for me it wasn't like a

33:18quick fix i had to do some real work particularly because my mental health was so severely damaged

33:24so i it took me years i had to try four different types of hrt to find the right one and then we

33:31introduced some testosterone so it was a real process for me so i don't want people to think

33:36you slap on a patch and everything's great again everyone's experience is different and that's okay

33:43and it takes time it takes time to find the right hrt that will treat your symptoms make you feel well

33:48again and we do know that the benefits of hrt far outweigh any any risk it's good for your bones it's

33:55good for your mental health it's it's good for you i think that that message doesn't get out there

33:59enough no there's a lot of fear-mongering around the negatives of hrt but there's not enough

34:05projection about the positives kathy and i will be buried with our hrt

34:08so so i actually said so i said the same as you no one's taking my hrt off me and then i i got to 50

34:19and popped in for my mammogram and boom i was diagnosed with breast cancer oh no 100 eastern

34:25positive and it wasn't my hrt that caused that one in seven australian women will get breast cancer which

34:32is why we need to make sure everyone's examining the breasts and going for the all the screening that's

34:36available so then you look at non-hormonal options and optimize your health across all

34:43those facets as best you can anissa you've heard lots of experiences would you ever consider hrt mht

34:51i would consider it temporarily i always want to bring my body back to balance through the methods i

34:57know i respect that women have a choice i think that's a really good thing i just don't think it's

35:02the only option no no no no no it's definitely not and i think that's about respecting a patient's

35:09perspective their health beliefs their cultural beliefs and despite being presented with all the

35:14evidence you're choosing to manage it in what about the individual yeah someone might just need a divorce

35:21i actually think you can also work wonderful it's a miracle drug mht is not going to fix your

35:27relationship after the relationship issue no no no if there are relationship difficulties that's

35:32what i'm saying so it can make you feel well and more likely to swing off the chandelier i've got one

35:38question the one one danger i thought might be because if you get the gel you put it on your thighs

35:44and i thought one day one day my boyfriend started talking about soft furnishings and he cried at

35:49the puppy dog ad and i thought did he lick my thighs too far after i put the gel on could he actually

35:56be getting it yes liz can you answer that one for us that comes into have you ever been asked that

36:03question no no i don't think anyone's ever asked that question on television ever no it's how i

36:09i cancel my council ladies about how to correctly use their estrogen gel or if they're taking

36:15testosterone for other reasons how to use that and you have to let it absorb and be dried before

36:23someone licks your thigh

36:29still to come the controversial procedure that could spell the end of menopause you could eliminate

36:36menopause if you've done this early enough and if the effect starts to wear off it's theoretically as

36:42easy as the topper kind of oh that's like having botox treatments you know like you'll just keep going

36:46back i've got no problem with aging i just want to age well yeah so don't try and tell me to avoid

36:53menopause and life after menopause and i also think sex gets better and better and better here at the

37:01yale school of medicine work is underway that may just transform how we think about menopause one of

37:07the uh sometimes comments you see that well you know menopause is a natural process why are we fiddling

37:13with this well death is a natural process but a lot of things we do is to avoid that right in the world

37:18of fertility science dr kutluk octay it's kind of a big deal so i performed the first ovarian transplant

37:25with cryopreserved tissue in 1999 and it works like this he takes ovarian tissue from a woman and

37:32then puts it in deep freeze years later it can be defrosted and transplanted to restore fertility

37:38and hormone production traditionally we've developed this procedure for

37:44helping cancer patients who would normally lose their fertility due to cancer treatments but now dr

37:51octay wants to use the procedure for an entirely new purpose to delay menopause if you look at women

37:58who naturally have late menopause at age 55 or later they have less risk of depression cardiovascular

38:06diseases diabetes and they actually live longer so it is possible that if we delay menopause for about

38:1310 years women may live healthier and longer lives the idea is to take ovarian tissue from a woman

38:21in say her 20s or 30s and then re-implant it before she reaches menopause especially if you do this

38:28under age 35 or so you can have at least a decade of delay in menopause and if you do it even earlier

38:35than that you could potentially have 30 40 years of delay and technically eliminate menopause if you've

38:43done this early enough and if the effect starts to wear off it's theoretically as easy as a top up as a

38:50matter of that i told this to one of my patients and she said kind of oh that's like having botox

38:55treatments you know like you'll just keep going back but this procedure is not without its critics

39:01i'm very supportive of using frozen ovarian tissue to be replaced in young women after they've been

39:07treated for something that wipes out their ovaries like chemotherapy for example i am not supportive of

39:13using it to delay menopause because we know that the later your menopause is like if you go through

39:20menopause at 55 versus 50 that is associated with a greater risk of breast cancer so i don't believe

39:28there's sufficient safety involved in that process and insufficient thought being given to that

39:36actually many women that consider this procedure are not phased by this and given all the screening

39:44methods and et cetera when you see all the benefits other benefits you gain from it um you know it's a

39:50bit like taking birth control pills there is a slight increase in breast cancer risk but there are many

39:55benefits a woman taking deck for decades so this potentially changes the game completely no it doesn't

40:03right what if it was an option available to you you wouldn't have taken it i've got no problem with

40:10aging i just want to age well yeah so don't try and tell me to avoid menopause but the thing is is

40:16that you're saying it doesn't 100 stop it so you're saying if say for instance like us you get severe

40:23symptoms you really want severe symptoms in your 70s with other things that you've got going on in your

40:27life so we've got to consider that as well liz there's somebody who went through early menopause so

40:32something like this have potential value no appeal at all because you just have to ask why would you

40:38choose that it's a surgical procedure yes and with risk there's no long-term safety data you know that's

40:44been established and we've got very good evidence-based menopause hormone therapy to treat the symptoms

40:51and are we stigmatizing aging yeah and i hate the idea of anti-aging yeah anti-aging creams i'm like i'm

40:58pro-aging yeah what's life like post-menopause i think you know that women can have the most

41:05sensational second act because the second active i think for women life is in two acts the trick

41:10is surviving the interval which is the menopause which is awful as we've discussed once you're

41:14through that it's the best time of your life no period cramps no pregnancy scares you've got all that

41:19tampon money to spend i mean and you do sort of come into your true self it's quite liberating isn't

41:25a theory and it's also because for the first time you've cut the psychological umbilical cord

41:29because your kids have grown up yes so it is a little time of liberation zest it takes a lot of

41:35energy to go through a cycle every single month and you get to reinvest the energy that might have been

41:41your period into you yes yes but that's not celebrated in western culture basically once you

41:47can't reproduce and western culture you're sort of surplus to requirements and where but in other

41:55cultures they see as you like you say a rebirth and it's like so i think the wise woman yeah and

42:01that's how we need to reframe it in a very positive um yeah it is a liberation it's a time where we

42:07get to be feel empowered about who we are and i also think sex gets better and better and better too

42:13because you believe well no please tell me tell me what you really think yeah i can't believe i'm

42:20i nicknamed my box the sahara desert so well i can't believe i'm even vertical right now because

42:26you know yeah good sex is about being comfortable in your skin and being totally relaxed and of course

42:32once you've gone through the menopause and you you know you just you no longer care what people think

42:37anymore just invest in some lube put it this way we don't just lie back and think of canberra no no

42:46one should but i find with my friends what's happening the women they're on the hrt they

42:51suddenly want to take on the world they want to climb everest they want to go down the amazon they

42:56want to you know they want to take up tango dancing in brazil whatever but when the men retire

43:01they want to stay at home and nest i think that's because their testosterone's dropping

43:06and their estrogen's coming up a little bit and women are like i've nested i've planted 4 000 acres

43:12of toast i've roasted four million flocks of lamb you know i want to now go for the first time in my

43:18life put myself first and have fun and frivolity with my friends and there's a big dichotomy in what

43:24older men and women want and unless australian men pull up their psychological socks and keep up with

43:30their their wives or their female partners they're going to find themselves alone so it's a big issue

43:35to address i think shelly do you still feel a bit angry that nobody warned you about the severity of

43:40your symptoms uh yes i used to be angry at my mum for not giving me a heads up and now with hindsight

43:49i'm angry for her because she didn't have the help she wasn't given the tools so now i'm i've got less

43:57anger and more empathy and compassion but i want to make sure that no one else slips through the

44:01cracks like i did if you could go back and talk to the younger version of shelly in fact let's role

44:07play it what would you say that's right i'm playing you thank you what would you say to the younger

44:12version of you what would you warn her what would you promise her first of all i'd give her a big cuddle

44:18because it was hard yeah and i would just make sure that she was educated that she knew what

44:25perimenopause was that she knew what the symptoms to look out for that she had a good health practitioner

44:31who was her ally that she didn't um feel alone yeah i want women to be educated so they don't feel

44:40alone and that was my biggest thing i just shrunk julia what would you tell your younger self um i'd say

44:51self-advocate that would that's the biggest thing i'd say self-advocate i mean and the onus shouldn't

44:56be on us it shouldn't be on us but it's really important that if you're worried about yourself to

45:03self-advocate don't don't be dismissed like me if you don't like what you hear go on to the next one

45:10knowledge is power yes yeah so the earlier that you and and if you're empowered by knowledge

45:17it's not such a hard journey because you will know what to go and ask for you will be very well

45:24prepared when you go to your consultation and it's not as scary as you think it's going to be anissa your

45:30experience is very different from a lot of people here but equally interested in what you would say

45:35to the younger version of yourself entering this this period younger version of myself i actually

45:39think i've never been so comfortable in my skin yeah i think this is a very powerful time for women

45:45i think this is a time for me to shine really yeah you know because i feel comfortable yes when you are

45:52going through a change in your life especially the menopause lean into your female friends just talk

45:56just go on a girl's night out it's much cheaper than therapy and we strip off to our emotional

46:01underwear in about 3.6 seconds and tell each other everything we haven't got time for this shall i ship

46:06we go deep we go deep and it's because we share these it's because god is a bloke and we've shared all

46:13these biological you know upheavals that we cut to the chase very quickly and i find i always say women

46:20are each other's human wonder bras uplifting supportive and making each other look bigger and better

46:25here are the human wonder bras today you're an honorary girl at the moment yes so it's not the first time

46:33to sharing that little bit of your glorious second spring with a lot

46:38thank you

46:46thank you

46:48thank you

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