How Pia Mance Turned Nine Hundred Dollars Into $10 Million In Sales At Heaven Mayhem

Forbes

Heaven Mayhem Founder Pia Mance sat down with Forbes to discuss how she bootstrapped an initial $900 investment into a global accessories brand now generating over $10 million in revenue. Mance also discussed the brand's strategic evolution from a direct-to-consumer focus to incorporating wholesale partnerships with major retailers like Revolve and Selfridges.   00:00 The Challenge of Running a Business 02:08 The Journey to Founding Heaven Mayhem 04:24 From Side Hustle to $10 Million Empire 10:00 Pivotal Moments and How to Spot Trends 18:36 Balancing Customer Feedback and Brand Identity 29:06 Pursuing Strategic Retail Growth  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00This isn't a fun girly pop hobby. This is a legit business and I'm paying people's wages who are

00:06paying for their life. Hi everyone, it's Alex York. I'm an editor at Forbes and I'm here with

00:13Pia Mance, the founder of Heaven Mayhem. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me.

00:17So you are in New York right now. We're shooting in our New Jersey office. Yeah. Tell me a little

00:21bit about why you are in New York today. Well, I was so excited that this worked out and I was

00:26able to have this in my trip, but I'm here to do a panel this afternoon at NYU. I'm so excited. I

00:31just did the Vogue business one last week, literally last week, but time has flown. It feels like three

00:36weeks ago. And I really like panels because it puts me out of my comfort zone. I love meeting people

00:41in person. So I love like talking to them on the side, but I get really nervous to go on stage.

00:45And I like feeling nervous because I think it's good to like have some new energy in your body.

00:49So I love being on panels and I'm excited for today, but I like feeling that little bit of nerve as

00:52well. Do you have any tips for like when you are in that like nervous energy, how to calm yourself

00:56down and like show up as your best self? I, I feel like you need to eat, you need to breathe,

01:04you need to have a glass of water, you need to do all those things. Of course, like look after

01:07yourself. But then I think I always just remind myself it's not that deep. Like I think people

01:13would think, oh my God, NYU panel, Vogue business panel, that is the pinnacle. And like, yeah, it is.

01:17But it's also like everyone in the audience is someone just like me who's there to like learn and

01:21listen. And if I was speaking to them one-on-one, we would just have a little powwow.

01:24So if I'm feeling a little nervous instead of stumbling over my words and trying to be

01:28super professional, I'd just be like, oh, sorry guys, I'm kind of nervous. Anyway,

01:31back to, back to the question. Do you know what I mean? Just being like casual and remembering,

01:34like it's not that deep and people like a little personality and also like sometimes not to throw

01:40any shade, but when they have back to back to back panels, they start to get a little repetitive

01:44and boring. So I think throwing in a bit of personality and keeping it real and like speaking to the

01:48audience actually helps. So I just remind myself of that. Totally. Yeah. Bringing that humanity into it. Just be like, I,

01:53we can relate to each other. Like we can just have a conversation, a casual conversation with

01:57each other, even though one of us is on a stage and the other is in the audience. Yeah. I love that.

02:02Have you been doing more and more of this or like, how have you come into this role? Obviously as a

02:06founder, but also as kind of like the face of this brand and someone who people want to learn from

02:10and hear from, what has that journey looked like for you? I think I was asked to be on a couple of

02:15podcasts and then from there it just sort of snowballed. And I think often it's like anything people

02:19kind of see one person has them on a podcast and then they, it just snowballs and people like, oh,

02:24she has a good perspective. She speaks well on a mic. Like, let's get her on. Um, and then it just

02:28snowballed and I kind of put it out into the universe. I wanted to do more panels and more public speaking

02:32and events and stuff like that. And it's just snowballed. And so I'm just saying yes to like pretty much any

02:36opportunity because I actually really like it. Totally. Do you feel like that's helped your business? Has it

02:41helped your just like personal confidence? Like what has been the payoff for you? I think personal

02:46confidence for sure. Uh, positioning myself with a little bit of a point of difference. And I think

02:51it's good for the brand. It's great brand awareness, but also it's good personal brand awareness because

02:55in my life, my goal in the next five to 10 years is to invest in a bunch of brands and help build them

03:01alongside other founders. So I really want to position myself in this world, like put my name out

03:05there, get people to know me for that reason. And so that's really helped. And then as well as that,

03:10speaking on the brand and having a room full of really smart people, whether it's at Vogue Business or NYU,

03:14now they know the brand, but often these people are looking for jobs or looking, or they might be

03:18freelancers and they're looking to like extend their career. So then they want to connect with me. And I just

03:23meet great people who I've ended up hiring or have ended up, you know, working within a freelance capacity. So

03:27it's actually really good from like multiple different angles. I want to back up a little bit before we get

03:31into like all you're doing right now. Let's take a step back to you grew up in Australia. Yes. Can you tell me a

03:37little bit about what that was like, what your child was like, what you were interested in? Who was Pia as like a

03:42young girl in Australia? I was so cute. I feel like people like, for example, I get a lot of people in

03:49the US being like, Oh my God, I'm never going to Australia. It's scary. There's too many bugs.

03:53I grew up in a city. It's there's not that many crazy bugs. And I was obsessed. My dad's an artist.

03:58I was obsessed with sewing. I did sewing lessons with my mom. I would make something every weekend.

04:03I would go to the flea markets. I would do henna tattoos. My wall was covered in posters that I would make.

04:08I was doing so many arts and crafts and creative things until probably age like 14, 15. And then I thought it's not

04:15cool anymore. And so I kind of stopped doing that. But like that is my roots and bread and butter. I was going to

04:20flea markets and sewing clothes since I was like 12. Like from the age my parents let me get the tram by myself. I was

04:27doing that. So I grew up in Australia. I met my boyfriend who I feel like some if you're listening right now, you're like,

04:32don't care. But it comes back to the story. So we met when we were really young at age 12 and then kind

04:38of got together at age 15. We both finished high school. He moved to China and we did long distance.

04:43And then I moved over to China for a couple of months to be with him. And so there I had a real

04:47insight into like factories, business. I was around his family dining table for like however long since

04:54I was aged like 14, 15, learning so much about business. He has a family business. I was also modeling.

04:59So I was learning like, oh, there's the founder or that's the creative director or like they'd say

05:04things like, oh, we have to shoot the first sample, but the sea shipments coming in. So you just like

05:07pick up all these tiny information that you don't realize you're going to apply later. And then from

05:13spending some time in China, we moved straight to London. And there I spent a lot of time helping

05:19him with his business and modeling. And then we moved to LA four years ago. And somewhere in between

05:24there when we're living in London, we got married and then we moved to LA for his business. So he wanted to

05:29expand his business in the US and I was like, oh, you know what, I'm happy to do that for you. We can do LA for

05:34five years. And then as soon as five years is up, we're moving to Sydney. I'm putting my foot down. Australia is

05:39where it's at. And like three months into LA, I was like, no, it's fine. We'll stay here forever. Like I love it. I just

05:44really like coming to New York and LA and I like the energy here. And I think it's a really great place to grow

05:48brands. So that's ultimately what I did. And I started my brand because I needed something more in my life. And I was

05:54kind of like work. I have a really strong work ethic, but I never really was applying it properly. So I'd

05:59be up till 10 on my laptop and we'd be going to sleep. But I'd be thinking, oh my God, where's the

06:04couch delivering for the house? And how can I get this? Like it's, it wasn't achieving anything in my

06:09life, but I do have that work ethic. So I started Heather Mayhem. We'd bought our house, we'd bought our

06:14furniture. We didn't have a lot of extra cash. I will say, I always say that though. I had like roots. I had my

06:20husband. I had a house. So it's not as if that was only in my bank account, but I just used $900,

06:24went downtown. I found some cord. I found some pendants. I went to flea markets. I went online.

06:29I did a collection of 20 vintage pendants. And then that was how Heather Mayhem was born.

06:34I want to talk about so many aspects of that because I think it's so important to like look back at kind

06:39of these initial moments of spark of like, oh, I see your dad is an artist and like, I want to do

06:44something that's artistic and creative, but also watching these businesses be built and realizing

06:49that's something that you're interested in as well. What moments throughout that like journey

06:53of yours, like you said, do you feel like the switch started flipping to like, I want to also

06:59be a builder? Was there a moment that you remember that being the case or was it just kind of gradual

07:03or accidental? How did that happen? I think it was really gradual. And I think somewhere in

07:07between then it flipped from wanting to do create things to like business things. So I would do things

07:14with my dad and be like, oh, I want to make art or I want to make clothes. And I was doing all of

07:17these different things. Then when I was modeling, I would hear like, for example, my favorite,

07:22favorite thing was they'd say like, okay, for example, pose with two hands on your hip and I'd

07:26do it. And then I'd pose with my arms crossed. This is a stupid example, but I do a really good

07:31pose. And then everyone would be like, oh my God, I love that. You take the direction. So I loved having

07:35that like little bit of control. And like when I was helping my husband or modeling for these brands,

07:40the social media, they'd suggest something and I'd be like, oh, I should do it more like that. Or

07:43always have these ideas. And I think gradually I started to like get this inner confidence. Like

07:48I want to do that for myself because I have this idea and I think it would make a difference.

07:51But like when I'm 13 years old telling my future to be father-in-law, like, I think you should do

07:57this with your business. He's like, what girl? But like I knew. So I think once I started applying it

08:02and it started working, I really got even more confidence. Yeah. You learn to trust yourself and

08:06like then you have something to say and you want to bring what you see in your mind to life.

08:10So you had $900 that you started Heaven Mayhem with. What were those first couple hundred dollars

08:15spent on? So it was spent on my Shopify subscription. I got the basic $30 a month,

08:20Canva subscription. Canva is like, we live and breathe in Canva at Heaven Mayhem. I had to pay for

08:27this subscription so I could download PNGs with a transparent background so I could use the logo and

08:31stuff. I got a digital camera on eBay for $40 and I got the stock. And I got a label printer from

08:39Amazon and I got some mailers from Amazon. So I was doing, I was sourcing the pendants, hand making

08:45it in a way because I was hand tying it, but I wasn't necessarily like welding it. And I would make

08:50the pendants, I would get the orders on Shopify, I would email them, I'd send out the order confirmation,

08:55I would pack it in my laundry, I'd drop it at the post office, print the labels, all of that.

09:00I'd come back, I'd do customer care, I'd take the photos, I'd taught myself Facebook ads. And so then

09:04fast forward now to this brand of nine employees, I know what everyone's job is. And I feel really

09:10confident and like, I'm really proud of myself. Even in this Q4 period, it's crazy. People say like,

09:15hey, this is happening. And I have found, I know what to say to all of them. Like I know how to solve

09:20all of these problems with them by my side. I couldn't do it all by myself, but I'm really proud

09:25that I have built it from scratch. So I really like know the ins and outs of the business.

09:29You mentioned too, that the kind of like, this business mind of yours was gradual. Once you

09:35actually started Heaven Mayhem though, like from that point, you decided like, I want to, I want

09:40to create these pendants. I want to create something for people to where we are today has, I mean, so

09:44much has changed. It's grown so much. Yeah. What do you think were the pivotal moments within that

09:48journey that really turned it from something you were doing for fun on the side, you know, from your

09:51home into this business that now, like you said, employs nearly 10 people. And you know, it's,

09:57it's a global business. What were some of those like pivotal moments? Do you think?

10:01I think, I think once I kind of had a taste that things were working, like, like I said,

10:05my work ethic is amazing. And I just keep going, keep going, keep going. And once I have an idea,

10:09I don't procrastinate. I do it that day. And I'm very like hungry. I think like I wanted to do the

10:13podcast today's podcast. I'm like, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm not, I don't just wait

10:17around for things to happen. So I think that was like a huge part, but then it was right time,

10:22right place, right product. Everything kind of fell into place. And I think it

10:27was, I mean, I don't want to say I was lucky, but it was definitely half me and then half my

10:32circumstances. I was living in LA. That is somehow an amazing place to build businesses. A lot of

10:37people come to me and want to do articles on that because it just is. I had, I was going to

10:41influencer events. I met all these influencers who would post heaven mayhem. So that was like a huge

10:45win. I ended up meeting Hayley Bieber, which was a huge win. She wore the product and I only met her

10:51because I saw her at a coffee shop because I lived in LA. So all these things we got on revolve.

10:55Revolve has a huge reach. And then I'm trying to think what else was really pivotal. I think

11:01we, a couple of our products, for example, our watch, the icon watch was really pivotal for us

11:07because everyone was wearing leather strap watches, but they have such a high price point. So this was

11:11kind of giving the look for less, but still at a great quality product. So all of these moments

11:16kind of like boosted and boosted and boosted the brand. And now when I look back, I can kind of see

11:20those, but when you're in it, every day feels the same. And then you look back and you're like,

11:23how have I been doing this for three years? Right. Yeah. And you realize that in hindsight,

11:26like, Oh, it is me and the circumstances I was in, or it is me and how the industry was shaping at

11:31the time. Yeah. When you first started, what do you think customers and consumers were looking for?

11:36How did that shape what you were creating? And how has that changed to today?

11:39I think at the time, going back to the right time, right place with the product,

11:43we did the pendant necklaces, which were somehow trending, but I mean, I always never want to like

11:49toot my own horn, but I, I was on that trend, but I didn't see it as a trend. I just liked it

11:53and I wanted to do it. And then every brand did it after whether we kind of made it or what,

11:58who knows, but I was right time, right place with that. And so I think customers were looking to us

12:02like, Oh, that's a cool product that I want. I'm going to shop there. And then again, with the

12:06vintage inspired earrings, when we brought those out, people were ready for that. And they were excited

12:10by the product because it was fresh and new. And I think different to anything they had. And now I think

12:15customers are used to us bringing out cool and innovative products that are fresh and exciting.

12:20And so now they look to us for that. And I think they have, instead of us showing them and they're

12:25like, yeah, I like that product. We almost tell them that they like it. They're looking to us to like

12:30set the trend or something cool. However, we're not trying to chase trends because otherwise we

12:33wouldn't be around. We're just trying to create like a timeless product that is cool and you can wear

12:38it now, or you can wear it in a couple of years, or you can pass it down, but it's still like

12:42innovative and people like it. So let's talk about that, like trend forecasting a little bit,

12:46because I think that's what you're alluding to there is like, you can kind of see what's coming

12:49down the pipe and like people might be interested in the future. How, what are you inspired by to

12:54kind of start generating that in your own mind? Are there like other brands that you're looking at

12:58or other like parts of culture or society? How are you starting to like ideate ahead of, you know,

13:03building the products? So the past two years, I've been building the products in such a short

13:09period because I'm like, I like it. Let's do it. Whereas now I'm currently working on December,

13:142026. And that's as far as I have ever, ever planned. So it is a little bit difficult because

13:18I'm like, is it going to be cool then? But I look to everything. Of course, your feed,

13:23I'm on social every day. My feed is saturated with other brands. My Pinterest is saturated.

13:27And sometimes you save an image and you might not realize like, this is the coolest brand in,

13:33you know, it's vintage, it's Gucci or something, but there's no logo. And so it's hard because you

13:37like might be referencing something really popular without realizing. So I kind of, of course,

13:42am influenced by that, but try and stay away from social and looking at other brands. And instead,

13:46I look to vintage. I look to like architecture. When I'm traveling, I'll look at little shapes or

13:52take pictures and then think like, how can I inspire an earring from that kind of like close my eyes and

13:57design it. Also, I remember once I was driving, there was like a weird electric car or something in

14:02front of me. It was raining, it was dark. And if I kind of squinted the shape of the tail lights

14:08looked like an earring. And so I'm like, there's some inspiration. So I really try and like keep

14:13that conversation open that I can find inspiration anywhere because I just don't want to look the

14:17same. And I think often if you look to other brands, you'll end up creating too close and then

14:22there's like too much of the same product. And then I also like to look at runway. So I look to

14:27like all the old runways from like years ago or now, but I actually look at it really, really small

14:34on my screen. So instead of zooming in and seeing exactly what it is, I'll look at it really small.

14:38And then sometimes I interpret it different. So recently I saw a bangle and I was like, oh, that's

14:43so cool. It's leather bangle. I want to do some of those. Then I zoomed in. It wasn't leather. It was

14:48just like silver. However, now I'm like, we're doing leather bangles. So I think you kind of like take

14:53some inspiration, but like leave it up to your own mind. I love that. And I think that it's such a good way

14:57of like, maybe what you are seeing is like what you want to see. Exactly. It's in there somewhere

15:02and it just has to come out in some way, shape or form. Exactly. And I think you have to trust

15:06yourself. Like it's so unbusinessy and a little cringe, but sometimes I just get it right. And I

15:11just don't know why. And I want to do it because I think it's cool. Or like, I don't know, for example,

15:16there's certain prints that like make my heart skip a beat like leopard. We have so much leopard

15:20throughout the business in that laptop cases and book boxes because I'm like attracted to this so much.

15:25And so I'm like, if I resonate with this, like someone else will, who is your consumer today?

15:29Like, is it someone like you? Is it different than that? Like, how are you, you know, engaging

15:33with these people and finding new and new shop? Yeah, I think we're really, really lucky with our

15:38price point and our distribution that we're actually a really accessible brand. We have a ton of girls,

15:43you know, 18 to 24 who were like in college to have their first job and are saving up for that one

15:49pair and know every product name. But then we also have moms who are like 50, 60 years old,

15:53and then they might just get five pairs of earrings or they might buy for their daughters.

15:56So we do have that wide customer demographic and we're really trying to create content. And I mean,

16:02I've never done this before. So I'm trying to find ways that make sense for the business to create

16:06content and reach every single customer demographic. You definitely can't be everything

16:11for everyone. So I'm trying to tailor this way where we can include everyone yet not like

16:16oversaturate ourselves or like lose our identity. So I think as long as it's true to us,

16:20we still do that. And then I think we're just working to tailor different content. For example,

16:25we do a lot of stuff on our broadcast channel on Instagram. We use an app called TYB. We do a Zoom

16:31sessions conversation in heaven. That's our younger demographic. So we do a lot of like face-to-face

16:35events and stuff with them. And then our older demographic, we segment them on emails and we'll

16:39provide them with like more styling advice or gift ideas, stuff like that. I want to talk about TYB a

16:44little bit. So that's Ty Haney, who founded that company. She's another under 30 outdoor voices.

16:49Like, I feel like the loyalty program and like gamifying shopping, which is like, you know,

16:54a lot of what she has done with TYB is like really kind of a new way that brands are engaging with

16:59consumers in different kind of formats than they have before. How are you using the platform? Like,

17:04what does that mean for how you are met with consumers day to day?

17:07So we use the platform to connect with our VIPs nearest and dearest. We invite them to come onto

17:13the platform and then we give them perks. So she, Ty, has done an incredible job with this platform

17:18and it allows customers to get engaged with your brand more and like get benefits. So we'll do like

17:24comment on this post or if you like and tag and comment, you get coins and then you can put that

17:29towards a discount code on the website. So people are incentivized to like engage and be a proper part of

17:34your community. And then we'll do little like competitions or we'll ask like, Hey, what color

17:38did you like? Or what resonated with you about this collection? Or my favorite question is what

17:42can we do better? Cause I often find if you say like, what did you think? You're not opening it up

17:46to constructive criticism. People feel a little guarded. So we always ask questions like that and

17:50then incentivize them with like a discount code or we give them early access. Um, I think next year

17:55we're planning some TYB only drops. So you can only get it if you're on TYB, but I actually have a

18:01podcast too. And I was talking to Ty and she was saying back in the day, outdoor voices,

18:05they would do these community events and you would get a specific cap. I can't remember what it said,

18:10but she loves her doing things logo. And maybe it said doing things. And then she said, I would walk

18:14around New York and I would be on Brooklyn bridge, West side highway. I'd see people wearing the doing

18:17things cap, but we don't sell those. They're just for our community. So you kind of look at each other

18:22and you're like, ah, like you have one too. It's like a club, like an unspoken club. So that's what

18:26we're kind of trying to do as well with TYB is like, do these small little products that you can

18:31only get if you're part of this, you can never purchase so that people feel really like a part

18:35of something. In terms of then like that feedback that you're mentioning there, how do you walk the

18:40line of getting that feedback and incorporating it, but not steering too far away from like you and your

18:45vision for the brand? I think the feedback is so helpful and we usually take all of it on board.

18:52Um, but if I don't like it, I don't like it. So sometimes like it's funny and you want to be a

18:59super open founder and listen to feedback. But if I hear something I don't like, I'm like wrong,

19:03like that doesn't suit. But I think it's important to keep the identity of the brand. But for example,

19:07we just did a conversations in heaven. It's like about 40 to 60 people come. We do it once a month.

19:12It's a zoom. They listen to me go through, I'll kind of present our recent drops or like sneak peeks

19:17behind the scenes. And then I opened the floor to them and someone was saying on our eyewear PD product

19:22pages online, we have try on videos. She was like, I really want some try on videos for the other

19:27products. And then two other people said, yeah, that would be really helpful. So of course I'm

19:30listening to that because like, that is just a helpful customer experience. But then they wanted

19:35some different colors and earrings. Of course I'm listening to that. But then they want some really

19:40dainty things. And I don't think dainty is our brand. So I like you can go anywhere for that.

19:44So it's like a fine line and you kind of just pick and choose. But ultimately, I want to help the

19:49customer because they're the ones shopping. Yeah. And knowing that brand and like realizing

19:54what you want to be like the next phase of heaven mayhem is obviously a huge part of like growth and

19:58evolving. You guys have evolved like in many different ways since you started, started with

20:02dependence, as you're mentioning, moved into jewelry, belts, now eyewear. How have you gone about

20:08deciding what the right next like expansion or evolution is? When is it an idea that you're willing

20:14to pursue? When is it something that you're like, this is just getting too far away from our core?

20:18Yeah, I think it's funny because some of the stuff we have coming next year is so far away from

20:22an earring. It's so random and I'm excited for it to be like so random that it almost stands on its

20:27own. But I think it's for me, we want to be the go to destination for accessories. Like for example,

20:34your outfit, you could wear it every day of the week and you could dress it up with an accessory and

20:37it just like really change your look. And that go to place for a gift. I think everyone would want a

20:43gift from heaven mayhem, any girl I know. So I want to become that go to place for accessories.

20:48And then if I think about accessories, that is head to toe. So like your earrings, your eyewear,

20:52your necklace, your belt, your shoes, your bracelet, your watch. What about to store those

20:57accessories? So any storage accessory as well, that's where our book boxes come in. What about

21:01a bag? What about a laptop? You take your laptop everywhere. So that's why we did laptop covers.

21:06We also did laptop covers because everyone's in a cafe working, everyone's in an office working.

21:10We don't have our logo on our earrings. It was a great brand awareness play as well,

21:14which was the idea. And now it's one of our best sellers. So I think for me, as long as it hits

21:18the accessories realm, I'm good with it. And then, yeah, we'll see. I don't think we're going to go

21:25into, you know, people like do a lip liner because I'm such a lip liner girl or like do a perfume. I

21:29don't think we're going to do any of those under heaven mayhem or clothes, but it's definitely

21:33something with like test with fun collabs. Yeah. Let's talk about collabs a little bit too,

21:37because you have done a couple of different like partnerships or, you know, I know for fashion week,

21:41you also were on Christopher Esper's models. Yeah. How are you going about finding the right

21:46partners for those? And similarly, I talked to Tessa Barton recently in here, and we've talked

21:51about your guys, you know, collaboration together with heaven mayhem and Tessa. How do you go about

21:56finding the right people to partner with? Like when is it, you know, maybe too close to you and your

22:01brand versus like a new market to tap into? You know, of course, that's the goal of partnerships

22:06is to find more and more of these audiences. So what's the thought process like there for you?

22:10I think we've done quite a few collabs for a young brand and I want to continue doing more. And I

22:15think people always ask me this and I think people think it has to like be this huge thing,

22:20but actually I look at collabs for like multiple different reasons. For example, some collabs,

22:25I'm learning how their team works and I'm getting information, not like secret information, but I'm

22:29just getting like, you know, they're a huge company and I'm learning things. So like that's helpful,

22:35or it's the brand alignment or it's a ton of sales or, you know, different things. Or it's,

22:39for example, we're providing them with cool factor and cool young girls and they're providing

22:43us with a really cool venue at no price or something. So I think it, it doesn't all have

22:48to meet every criteria just has to meet one or two for us to go for it. But I think right now

22:53we're trying to collab with brands who either a great brand alignment for us and really put us

22:59where we want to go or are going to reach a totally new demographic. Either it's more mass or it's just a

23:04different demographic. When it comes to brands too close, we did a collab with Real Fine. They're a

23:08jewellery brand and they're based in LA. It's kind of close because they have two Australian founders.

23:14So we really got on. We're like such good friends. People might be like, well, how would you collab

23:17with another jewellery brand? But it works so well for both of us. They're such a higher price point.

23:21We're a lower price point. We were able to offer like a lab fine jewellery. And now one year later,

23:26we're looking at doing our own lab jewellery ourselves. But it was just such a great partnership. I loved it.

23:31And like everything was so aligned. We collabed with Freya. And again, that's something we wanted

23:35to test. We wanted to test bags. We want to go down and do bags eventually as well. And again,

23:39it was such a great partnership. It was very aligned. Brand alignment was all there. Product

23:44was unreal. Everyone loved it. The press we got was amazing. The problem we kind of ran into is that

23:50our customer is the exact same girl. So that for us, it wasn't a huge sales play. It was, it did really

23:56well, but without returning customer. So it was really, really interesting. Usually on every single drop,

24:01we get about 30% returning customers, 70% new customers on this. We got 70% returning customers.

24:07And every single time I'm in New York, I will run into multiple girls carrying a Freya bag. I'm

24:11wearing a heavy mayhem pair of earrings. So it was, but we kind of noticed that when we're walking

24:15around in May, when the collection dropped and we were like, damn, we should have probably thought

24:19of that, but like great brand alignment. And we're so glad we did it, but it's just funny how we thought

24:23we'd tap into each other's audiences, but they're the same audience.

24:26Yeah. I 100% understand that. Along with that, like what are, what are some of the other biggest

24:31learnings that you've had over the past, you know, three plus years now running this brand full time?

24:36Has there been anything that's like really surprised you about, you know, I don't know, building a

24:41business or being a founder or building a team? Like what have the challenges been? What have you had to overcome?

24:45I'm going through a couple of challenges at the moment with like logistics and warehousing and stuff.

24:52Um, I think everything was so fun. Well, it is so fun. And I think that's like the best part of

24:59my business is like, I can have a serious conversation and laugh every day. We laugh every

25:02day. We do something really fun. And like, I'm wearing a witch's hat in the office or we're like

25:06eating cake or we're doing something fun. But I think some challenges I've had to overcome is like,

25:11to me, it's been so fun this whole time that sometimes when I'm in like an actual serious

25:15conversation with actual contracts and actually real money and hundreds of thousands of dollars,

25:20and I'm, I'm like, Oh shit, this is a business. And it sounds so stupid.

25:24The realization sets in though.

25:26It sets in and I have so much fun, but I'm like, Oh God, I need to like,

25:30really take this one seriously. So I think that has been real for me the past couple of months that

25:34I'm like, this isn't a fun girly pop hobby. This is a legit business. And I'm paying people's wages

25:41who are paying for their life and we're growing and hitting these targets so that we can like

25:46grow as a brand and we're being held to a lot of standards. So I think that's just a bit of a

25:50realization as well as we grow that we need to like, you know, people are watching and we have

25:56bigger contracts and things in place, but challenges I've overcome. It's so cliche, but I

26:01think you've just learned from everything. I mean, a recent example is we didn't have a certain

26:06piece of packaging in our eyewear. So we had 2000 arrive to the warehouse and we had to draw sticks

26:12in the office who was going to go. So we had one girl go and she took her sister and they had to

26:15sit in the warehouse for three days, unpacking 2000 and repacking it. So it had the right thing,

26:20but that was just like a missed mistake that I was like, it'll be fine. I'm like, it's not fine.

26:24So I think just like being a little more cautious, but you're not going to learn if you don't make

26:27mistakes. Yeah, definitely. I want to talk to you about the retail side of things, because you know,

26:31you are D to C as you've kind of been talking about here, interfacing directly with client or

26:35customers, but you also are in multiple retail stores, you know, moving from online and interfacing

26:42directly to having these like middleman customers as well changes the business a lot too, I assume.

26:49Why did you decide to go down the retail route? How has it changed or impacted the brand and who

26:53you're able to reach? Like what has that looked like? So our business right now is about 80% D to C,

26:5920% wholesale. And I think the wholesale was a play to grow, but also a play to get new customers.

27:06So once we launched on Revolve, our D to C grew as well, because people are seeing that it's like,

27:12it's like marketing, you see on the biggest website, you see the name heaven mayhem when

27:16you're shopping. Now you know that brand. So it's like a great marketing tool. But then also they place

27:21big orders and like help fund some of our business. So it's a great tool like that. But I think for us,

27:26it was like huge, huge, huge brand awareness. And we want the right partners. It's definitely not

27:31only a financial, otherwise I'd be everywhere and anywhere. But it's really to reach those

27:36customers who like to shop there. And I think that younger customer loves a quick shipping

27:41and all of that. Whereas that older demographics, usually they have a store that they've been shopping

27:45at for years. For example, they might be a Bergdorf customer, or they might be Macy's or something,

27:48and they just die hard there. So it's important to pop up in those kinds of spaces. And then it also

27:54really like solidifies your brand. You're not just an Instagram brand that's online. And like,

27:58is it real? No, it's like legit, it's in the best stores in the world. We did this huge pop up with

28:02Selfridges. And that like, fully changed the business in that we had so many different people

28:08looking at us, I had a ton of investors reach out, I just had a ton of different, interesting people who

28:13now took us more seriously. And I think it just legitimized the brand by partnering with a store like

28:17that who has such great credibility. So I think it really is like, all these benefits.

28:21Do you advise other startup founders to go the retail route? Or is it right for everybody? Is it

28:26does it have to be the right fit? Like, what would you advise up and comers right now?

28:29I would, I would do the retail route, but you need to be ready for it. It's a lot like,

28:35you need to have the cash flow for it. Business wise, you need to have the inventory for it,

28:40you need to have like the brand presence for it. I think it's really amazing to get into these

28:45stores. And it's kind of like a win. And I love sales. Like, the thing about me is,

28:49I love the creative side of the business. But I also love the business. And I love the sales. So

28:52like, what am I going to do every job all day. But I love sales. And I think at the start, it was

28:57like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, we're in this store. Yes. But doesn't really matter if you're in it,

29:01you have to sell. So if you don't have that brand awareness yet, and you're not ready to be in the

29:04store, it's not going to sell. So you'll be dropped off immediately. And I think that's even worse,

29:08because like, if you're in a selfridges, and now you're out, they're never going to have you back,

29:12because you proved that you couldn't sell. So I think, well, yeah, it's a great like brand

29:16awareness plan growth tool, you really need to be ready for it. And I think we were and like,

29:21often when we're launching in these big retailers, we don't just like launch and like

29:24wipe our hands clean. We launch and then we work with them on some kind of small marketing. And then

29:30we go through the back door and we do our own marketing. So like, we got a ton of influencers

29:33to go in and do videos. All we facilitated it, we gifted them, we paid them, whatever. Selfridges had no

29:39idea. A lot of the retailers have no idea because we want the partnerships to be successful. And we

29:43don't just want to, it's not a quick sale for us. It's like a brand awareness plan. What time period

29:48in your growth journey? Did you have your first retail partnership? Um, a year and a half a year

29:55in, I got revolve. Okay, so I launched the brand in June, and I launched on revolve the following May.

30:00So yeah, in. And then from there, it just kind of snowballed. And it's so funny, like,

30:06I have tried to get some retailers, and then some have just come to us. And I remember I was in Ibiza.

30:13This was the time it was just me and one other person. And we were doing everything, every,

30:17every, everything. And she was filling all the orders while I was away. And I was like,

30:20you know what, I'm just going to go through custom service, clear it out, have 100 emails,

30:24ended up clearing all the junk, find an email from a month before from Essence and Bloomingdale's

30:29saying like, hey, we'd love to have the brand. And I'm like, oh my god, like,

30:32we are not ready for this. Because I can't even reply to your email. I can't even see your email

30:37until a month later. Like, this is kind of crazy. So I think we've had a lot of people come to us

30:40that now have been able to facilitate. Although I still haven't brought Essence to fruition,

30:44like two years later. So that's the other thing. It's like one email, someone's interested,

30:48but things take a long time. Totally. Yeah. And you cannot, to your point,

30:52move too fast. Otherwise, it's gonna bite you in the long run. Yeah. You mentioned there too,

30:57that people were interested in the brand, including investors. Have you guys raised any funding?

31:00Is that something you're interested in? Because I know, obviously, when you were featured on the

31:04under 30 list, you were fully bootstrapped. So what has that journey looked like?

31:07Fully bootstrapped, $900 to, I almost said 10 figure business, I wish,

31:14to over $10 million business. And no, we're not raising money. I don't want to. But I don't want

31:20to say no, no, no forever. Because I think once you get to that point, you might need a little money

31:26to grow because we will just be growing at the same rate. But definitely, I don't want to raise,

31:30don't even think about raising until maybe end of next year and see how far we can push it and how

31:35far we can go. I think the cost of acquiring customers getting a lot more expensive. When we

31:39were smaller, it was cheaper, but also we had that organic growth because we were brand new. But now

31:44things have changed. So I'm not sure maybe down the road we'd consider it. But I really would

31:49absolutely love to be a self-made, self-funded business. Yeah. What does, especially knowing

31:55how much has changed over the past couple years and how much will continue to change,

31:59what does growth look like for Heaven Mayhem in the next 12 to 24 months? What do you guys have

32:03your sights set on? Knowing the industry, what are you preparing to be up against? Yeah, I think

32:10it's funny because I see huge brands in the jewelry space, in the bag space, in the eyewear space,

32:15but I don't really see any big players that offer it all. So I think that is a struggle because I

32:21don't see a brand that we can almost go after and be like, I want to be the next X because I don't

32:26know what that brand is. So I think we are trying to grow and be like that go-to place for all,

32:31which is fun because I don't know if it's really being done and we're tapping into something a bit

32:36different, but it's also a challenge because there's no playbook or anything to follow. So I think for us,

32:40it's growth by bringing in new categories, but also solidifying these verticals that we have.

32:44Like eyewear should be huge. Watches should be huge. We have all these that often people just

32:49have that as a brand. Also expanding more into retail across the country. I think

32:54the US is huge and with all of the new tariffs and everything, it is harder to kind of expand

32:59worldwide. So I think really focusing on our growth here and just doubling down on the brand. Our team

33:05is always stretched so thin. So I think I want to get to a point next year where we're planning

33:10a year, the drops a year in advance. We've got everything all organized, a tight buttoned up,

33:15well-oiled machine. I think that's really like what we need rather than chasing after growth targets

33:19while also chasing after growth targets. I think that's like kind of my goal. So I launched the brand.

33:26The first six months was around 50K. The next year was 2.5 mil. The next year was 10 mil. So

33:312023 to 2024, I 5X'd it. 2024 to 2025, we'll see. But I mean, I'd like a 3X growth every

33:40like year. I don't think that's going to happen realistic, but like at least a 2X is what we kind

33:45of aim for. You mentioned there tariffs. Where are your products all made today? Are you like having

33:49to face a lot of that with more of this happening? Like how has that taken shape? We are facing it.

33:56Our products are predominantly made in Asia. We do some products in LA. So we're just kind of

34:01thinking about ways that we can make more stuff in the US, make more packaging here. You know,

34:07for example, our belts. I've just recently working with a supplier in Italy, but I'm thinking maybe

34:12we'll just do the buckles in Italy, get those sent because that's going to be a lower cost to import,

34:16and then we'll just make the rest in the US. So trying to find ways to do that and also then set

34:20up a warehouse in China for like the international distribution, set up a warehouse in Europe,

34:25in the UK. There's just, I mean, it's crazy because my husband has a brand and he was saying like he's

34:30focusing his growth in the UK. And I was like, well, babe, that's not really relevant because

34:35once someone goes viral on TikTok and someone else sees it, it doesn't matter where you're growing,

34:40you can do anything. But actually it kind of does because once people try and ship things,

34:44it's literally, there's a tariff here, there's a tariff there. And you know, you see the price

34:48of something and then you have to pay double to get it to you. It's really difficult. So I guess

34:51just trying to combat all of that and keep the transparency with our customer open because

34:56they know that it's not heaven mayhem charging this crazy duty or something,

35:01but you just need to be transparent. They're paying upfront and whatever. No one's hit with

35:04unexpected bills. You mentioned at the beginning of this conversation that you want to get more

35:08involved with other businesses that are building right now. What's your vision for that? Like,

35:13do you want to invest more? Do you want to build more on your own? Like, where do you see yourself

35:18going? You know, now that you have done this kind of one time around and you're continuing to build

35:22and build, I'm sure you have so much knowledge that then you can pass down. So what are you,

35:26what are your plans for that? So I'm already working on some other businesses for myself.

35:31I think it's, I just love it. Like I said, I'm having so much fun. So why wouldn't I do it? It's a hobby.

35:35And then it turns into a job. With other brands, I've already invested in a couple. So it's just kind of like

35:41brands I already love and use. For example, this bone broth I'm obsessed with. I met with the

35:44founder. I'm like, I want to invest and I don't really do much else than just financially invest

35:49in that. Like I connect with them sometimes help on like do some socials. I invest in a collagen

35:54powder I'm obsessed with called par olive. I do a lot. I help with like events. I co-host events.

35:59I help with influencer. And again, I just like pass that knowledge. It's kind of like I'm

36:03an investor, a shoulder to lean on, a friend, like a collaborator, an advisor, a mentor, all in one.

36:11And it's also really nice for these founders because they can kind of call me up and they know

36:15that I can offer them advice with experience. I can tap into my network, but I want nothing but

36:20the best. I think sometimes when you're building, you just want to talk to someone. And then if you

36:23ask a friend, you're like, Oh, but you don't really get it. Or, but you, do you have my best intentions?

36:28You never know who you're talking to. So I think that's kind of why I love investing and I like

36:32encourage them. And I also sometimes see it as like, I'm like the angel slash the devil on their

36:36shoulder. I'm like, where's this? Why haven't you done this? You know, it's like, it's nice to have

36:40someone kind of pushing you. Um, so yeah, I'm looking to do more of that with just brands that

36:43I'm obsessed with. And I hope that cool brands will come to me. They already have. Um, but then I also

36:49want to like put it out there to brands as well, just when I see something that feels right.

36:52Yeah. So a little bit in the health and wellness space, I see.

36:54Yeah. Which is kind of crazy. And then I've also invested in ShopMy,

36:57which like has changed our business instrumentally. And I think that's a really fun one to like,

37:02I think it's an incredible business. So I'm excited for any returns I get on that,

37:06but it's also just really fun to have a peek behind the curtain and like see how amazing

37:09they're doing and like get the investor reports and stuff.

37:12Mm. So my last question for you, we've talked a lot about obviously like the growth of your

37:16business and how that's changed and evolved over time. But for Pia, like, where do you want to go in

37:21the future? What do you have, you know, sites that your site set on for your own personal interests or

37:27your own personal goals or like, how does, how do you want your life to shape up within the next,

37:32like, you know, a couple of years?

37:33My life's pretty great. I will say like, I love my job. I love my husband and like, what's,

37:39what's more to life. I mean, I love, I have, I personally enjoy everything I'm doing. I love

37:46everyone I work with. I love my business. I love working and having these ideas and seeing them

37:50come to fruition. So I think I'm doing the exact thing that lights me up. Um, I love traveling.

37:54I love all of this. I think I just want to do more of that and I want to do it at a bigger scale.

37:59And I want to reduce some of that everyday stresses in my life. Like for example, our business is really

38:05small. So if we have a small, tiny issue, for example, laptop case issue, I'll just quickly edit a

38:12photo, but I think I need to get out of that day to day. And that's kind of where I want my life to

38:16go and making these more like executive decisions. But I kind of love the day to day too. So we'll see.

38:21And sometimes it's hard to let go.

38:22Yeah, it's hard to let go. And I don't want to be a control freak, but sometimes I'm like,

38:26this vision needs to be translated so clearly that you have to almost do it to for the people to see

38:32it. So it's like a bit of push and pull with that. But I think ultimately, I'm like loving my life.

38:36And I'd say the goalposts are forever moving, but I'm really happy with where I'm at and the

38:41trajectory. And I think I just want to like start more brands, invest in more, grow over mayhem and

38:45keep having fun. Well, I cannot wait to see what happens next. Thank you so much for taking the

38:48time today. Thanks for having me. This was so fun.

39:06Thanks for having me.

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