- 1 week ago
In this edition of Democratic Newsroom, the focus is on the volatile situation in Bangladesh, ties between New Delhi and Dhaka, which has hit a new low following the death of Bangladeshi student leader Sharif Osman Hadi, the lynching of a Hindu worker and the rise of anti-India sentiment in that country.
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00:00Good evening, welcome, and a very Merry Christmas to all our viewers.
00:04Welcome to yet another edition of the Democratic Newsroom.
00:07We come to you on Christmas Day, but with not such a festive topic.
00:12What are we debating this evening?
00:14Well, Bangladesh is on the boil.
00:16And the question that we put forward for debate in the Democratic Newsroom is,
00:21has India got its foreign policy wrong, especially with its neighbors?
00:25All right, let's kickstart with Gaurav Savant.
00:28Gaurav, you want to go ahead first?
00:30It's a Christmas miracle.
00:34Hallelujah.
00:36I think India is taking a long-term view of whatever is happening in Bangladesh,
00:40and I don't think India's policy with our neighbors, not just Bangladesh,
00:44but look at the way Sri Lanka is now thanking India for India's help,
00:49not just in the cyclone relief, but also in reconstruction.
00:53Also, when Sri Lanka defaulted, India was the first country that came forward and helped.
00:57That's India's responsibility.
00:59And India's fulfilling that responsibility.
01:01Look at the neighborhood.
01:02Look at Maldives.
01:03You know, when they came on an India out plank, things just turned around.
01:07Because, you know, election rhetoric is one part.
01:10When you wake up, you smell the coffee, you realize this is the Indian subcontinent.
01:15India is powerful.
01:16India is strong.
01:17India, you grow with India.
01:19But if you abuse India, there are consequences.
01:22And if you kill Hindus in Bangladesh, there will be consequences.
01:25And that's unacceptable in this neighborhood.
01:27India is happy to help.
01:29Even now, Bangladesh wants rice.
01:31Bangladesh to survive needs India.
01:33Flanked by India on all sides.
01:34But then you can't kill Hindus.
01:35You can't target the Indian mission.
01:37You can't have radical Islamists who will abuse India
01:39and then expect India to bend over and, you know, roll over and play dead.
01:43All right.
01:44Okay.
01:45Rajdeep on that festive note.
01:47Look, I think, first of all, I think before you look at what has India got wrong
01:51with its foreign policy in the context of Bangladesh, look at what Bangladesh has got wrong.
01:56You see, here, you know, here is a country which was avowedly seeking itself
02:01through its cultural identity, the linguistic identity.
02:06And today finds itself in the grip of an element of Islamic radicalism, which is dangerous.
02:12It is a country with a political vacuum, with an interim government that is struggling
02:16to hold these various forces together.
02:20So the real problems are in Bangladesh itself.
02:23India is getting the blowback of it.
02:25But let's be honest.
02:26I think we got caught napping.
02:28We did not expect the events that took place last year in July, August to spiral out of control
02:34to the point where we suddenly had to almost airlift Sheikh Hasina and give her safe exile
02:40in India.
02:42And it's not the first instance in the neighborhood.
02:43I don't think we anticipated the kind ofâĻ
02:46Sri Lanka.
02:47Sri Lanka, Pakistan.
02:48We didn't anticipate the manner in which General Aseem Munir was going to virtually take
02:53over the country in the way he has.
02:55We were hopeful.
02:56We were hopeful for a while.
02:57No, really?
02:58No, I think we were hopeful for a while.
02:59We were hopeful for a while that with election held as it was last year with Shahbaz Sharif
03:07coming to power.
03:07But that Munir would turn out to be this kind of anti-Indian force.
03:12But let's not get into Pakistan.
03:13We are talking about Bangladesh.
03:14No, because everyone had Pakistan and Munir absolutely right.
03:18He's a radical Islamist and everyone in India, except those who look at Pakistan with rose-tinted
03:24glasses, except anybody who looks at Pakistan with rose-tinted glasses, everyone's right.
03:29Okay, Rajdeep, make your point.
03:31Then I'll go to Geetha.
03:32Let's not talk over each other.
03:33Geetha, let's not talk over each other.
03:35Let him finish.
03:35He's not talking about the fact.
03:38I'm not toasted.
03:39Yeah, he's not.
03:40He's just saying that nobody anticipated consolidation of power.
03:43Exactly.
03:44Okay, allow him to finish.
03:46I'll come to you, Geetha.
03:46Make your point.
03:47The fact is, in my view, whether it's Bangladesh, where I believe we got caught napping in the
03:52sense we didn't anticipate the chain of events that would take place so dramatically.
03:56We'd put all our eggs, perhaps rightly so at that time.
03:59In Sheikh Hasina's basket.
04:01We had an excellent relationship with Bangladesh for a decade.
04:04We didn't anticipate the anger that was boiling within Bangladesh.
04:08Let's be clear.
04:09There is anger that was boiling in and it erupted like lava.
04:12We didn't anticipate, I believe, the manner in which the centralization of power would
04:16take place along this one individual rabid anti-Indian Islamist in General Asir Munir.
04:22I don't think we anticipated the kind of economic collapse that would eventually lead to the Rajapakshas
04:26fleeing Sri Lanka a few years ago.
04:28And we didn't for a while even anticipate the events going on in tiny Maldives.
04:32We may have clawed back in some of those.
04:35It's not easy.
04:36It's a volatile, hostile neighborhood.
04:38I think, therefore, we need to handle Bangladesh in particular with care because it's been one
04:44of the few countries with which we've had a strong, stable relationship over the last
04:48day.
04:49Okay, I want to go to Geeta.
04:50She looks at foreign affairs.
04:51Yeah, she'll know more.
04:52She'll know more.
04:53She looks at foreign affairs.
04:54She has also delivered a superb interview for us by the end of the year of Mr. Putin.
04:58But go ahead.
04:58They all have an opinion and they all have covered foreign policy very closely.
05:02But I'm just saying it's not about getting our policies wrong, Gaurav, to your point
05:08on Bangladesh that we will not go ahead and engage Bangladesh if they continue.
05:16I never said we are not engaging.
05:18I said we are not.
05:19I never said that we will not engage.
05:20You said we will not.
05:21India is engaged with whoever is in power for keeping our interests active in any country.
05:27No, but you just said.
05:28No, I never said that we will not engage.
05:30Yeah, we will not go to.
05:31Yeah, you said we will not sleep if we will not go to bed with minorities being attacked
05:37in.
05:38We are not comfortable with that.
05:39No, you did not say comfortable.
05:40No, I didn't say we will not engage with them at all.
05:42But I'm quoting you.
05:43You said we are not going to go to bed.
05:44Anyway, you can replay that.
05:45Looking, yeah.
05:45You can replay that, okay?
05:47Go back and listen to what he said.
05:49But I'm just saying that India needs to engage all these countries.
05:53Like it or not, whether we were caught napping or not, we need to engage all of them.
05:58They are very important neighbors.
06:00And for us, the biggest trouble with Bangladesh today is that, yes, they are radical Islamist
06:05forces who are now controlling the country.
06:07How is India going to manage and navigate this relationship given the fact that the West is
06:15also turning a blind eye has become a problem for us.
06:17Okay.
06:18That is our biggest problem right now.
06:20There are no checks for a UNIS administration doing what they want to and how they are doing
06:25it.
06:25Somebody has to look and say, well, we are not going to engage with you.
06:29India has to, but the other countries, because you are doing what you are doing.
06:33And that hasn't happened.
06:34By the way, we missed out Nepal when we spoke about a hostile, fragile neighborhood.
06:38Yes.
06:39So I see this as more of a mixed bag with several successes and challenges, not setbacks.
06:46And India has a geographical disadvantage.
06:49You have a long LAC and a LOC.
06:52And these are very, very hostile neighbors with the history of wars also with them.
06:58But I see over a period, India has managed to ensure security cooperation and important
07:04groupings like the SARC and the BIMSTEC.
07:06But at the same time, there are economic cooperation also, which is happening with Bangladesh.
07:12And just to give that figure, because I have the notes, Preeti, you have objections to the
07:16notes.
07:16No, no, I have no objections.
07:17Bangladesh is India's largest trade partner in South Asia.
07:24And also, India's, you know, neighborhood first policy has also yielded results in terms
07:31of extradition treaty, which was signed in 2013, which ensured that there is a marked improvement
07:36in internal security in Assam, Tripura and Meghalaya.
07:40So there are cooperations which have happened and it has yielded results.
07:44To say that it has failed or it has not failed may not be correct.
07:48It is a mixed bag with lots of successes and some challenges which we are seeing with the
07:53kind of internal domestic issues which are playing out in these countries.
07:56No, I have no problem with your notes.
08:00I see Rajdeep, he is scrolling away on his phone.
08:03So, go ahead.
08:05I have no notes.
08:06But I think what's happened in Bangladesh, if you look at it, there's so much of turmoil,
08:11there's so much of political instability that I think the way India is handling it right
08:15now in the last few months, India showed a great amount of restraint.
08:18But at the same time, made it very clear that India also does need good ties with Bangladesh.
08:23You know, no one's denying the fact that India and Bangladesh need to work together.
08:26Bangladesh needs India too.
08:28There's no doubt about it.
08:29But having said that, I think what Gaurav referred to the example of Maldives, you know,
08:33India took it in the long run a bit.
08:35There was a lot of this talk of, you know, India out, the campaign that had happened.
08:39But India showed restraint then too.
08:41You know, we put the focus on beyond that, on economic ties, on helping them during disasters.
08:46So, I think even in this case, as far as Bangladesh goes, maybe we're jumping the gun and going
08:50ahead and asking the question about how India has dealt with it.
08:52It's still an ongoing statement.
08:54And that is what good neighbours do and good relationships mean that you have to be the
08:59safe haven for a prime minister.
09:02Look at Afghanistan, for example.
09:04Afghanistan has a regime that India wasn't comfortable with.
09:08But it looked to help the people of Afghanistan.
09:11And India, because we have civilizational ties with the people of Afghanistan,
09:14India is also engaging with the Taliban, who we don't even recognize.
09:18I don't think we're doing it.
09:19Gaurav, one second.
09:19I don't think we're engaging with Pakistan for the people of Afghanistan.
09:23We're doing it for Afghanistan for the people of Afghanistan.
09:27I think we're doing it.
09:28No, Gaurav, we're doing it for our own strategic importance vis-a-vis-a-vis-a-vis-a-vis-a-vis-a-vis-a-vis.
09:33That is one part of it.
09:35But there's also a civilizational ties because people also see through it.
09:38You see, when you have a healthcare system there, which is still running, which they
09:43still want you to come, when you're helping them with food, when you're helping them,
09:46you know, when Pakistan bullies them with sending them substandard rice and makes them
09:50beg for rice.
09:52India provides it.
09:53We're doing it for geopolitical reasons, Gaurav.
09:55We're not doing it for the people of Afghanistan.
09:58You may think so.
10:00There is a human angle to it.
10:01There is a human angle to it that you may choose to play down.
10:04But there are other aspects.
10:05Nobody's choosing to play down.
10:06You could have...
10:07Okay, forget it.
10:08Make your point.
10:09So there are other things that come into play.
10:11India has helped every neighbor.
10:13And the Prime Minister from day one has said it's neighborhood first.
10:16We'll help every country.
10:17So that the entire region moves together.
10:21Can I just come in here for a bit?
10:22You know, the biggest problem our neighbors have with us, and especially us journalists
10:26also, is the fact that we keep saying India helped.
10:29India helps.
10:30India is extending help.
10:32That is their perception.
10:33I'm sorry that there's nothing wrong in saying that.
10:35But Gaurav, be the bigger us, that we should be extending assistance, providing development
10:42or helping in development work and development projects should be looked at.
10:47as two partners working together, rather than just India helping.
10:52Oh, they did not come to the rescue, so India helped.
10:55That's a real problem.
10:57But when I travel to these countries, Maria, when I travel to these countries, people actually
11:02complain about, how much can you talk about you helping us, we're this small little country.
11:07We know we're small.
11:08We know we need your assistance and help.
11:10So that's a fact that we need to read this.
11:12But Gita, there is a geopolitical, you're exactly saying that.
11:15Exactly.
11:15I'm just telling Akshita, I'm telling you exactly how it resonates in the country.
11:20But Gita, there is a geopolitical order.
11:25You have some of these countries where China is covertly backing.
11:28So you've got to, you have to set very hard red lines as well.
11:32All of these countries.
11:33Including Bangladesh.
11:34Exactly.
11:35Including Bangladesh.
11:35So our biggest, largest defense deal with Abhij.
11:39Absolutely.
11:40The truth of the moment, the truth I believe, but I'm looking again at India, Bangladesh.
11:44I maintain over the last decade from 2014 to 2024, you could count Bangladesh among India's
11:50foreign policy successes.
11:52There were various achievements India made in terms of extradition, trade ties, improved
11:57relations between the two countries and people to people contact.
12:01But the fact is that what's happened in the last 15 months is that you've had radical
12:06elements growing in Bangladesh.
12:08You've got leaders, for example, who say that they will give refuge to separatists of
12:13the Seven Sisters.
12:14We could isolate India, Northeastern states.
12:17Those comments get magnified in today's social media age.
12:21And in India, you've got rabid elements who every time any incident takes place in Bangladesh,
12:26terrible as it may, will tar the entire country with it.
12:30And it's feeding on the paranoias on insecurities of both countries.
12:34Therefore, you're playing with fire.
12:35I'm sorry.
12:36That's false comparison.
12:37Just a minute.
12:38My worry is that we are entering into the same, just look at the events in the last 48
12:45hours.
12:46It reminds me of what has happened, unfortunately, at times with Pakistan.
12:50We've gone, they've gone, called our high commission and said, you've got to provide
12:53security to our high commission in Delhi.
12:55We've gone and read out the riot act to them.
12:59All of this is dangerous when you've got the rise of Islamist groups within Bangladesh.
13:05So what do you mean, you want to do sajda, you want to do sajda to terror.
13:07No, no, it's not a sajda.
13:09Just a minute.
13:09No, no.
13:10Let's get it straight.
13:11One minute.
13:11I am not here.
13:12Just a minute.
13:12No, no.
13:13Gaurav, you must let people finish and then you are welcome to.
13:17The fact is, when you are dealing with such elements and I do believe that a large number
13:23of people in Bangladesh still do not want to go down the way that the Islamists will take
13:27them.
13:27The Jamaat has never been a successful force in Bangladesh.
13:31Not even in elections.
13:33Yeah, that's right.
13:33In elections in particular.
13:34If that is changing, India is faced with a serious foreign policy challenge.
13:39And the last thing you want in that situation is more rabid voices in this country saying
13:45Bangladeshi hai, Bangladeshi hai.
13:47You don't want that that plays out in that country to the paranoias and insecurities.
13:51You should ever do sajda to terrorist elements.
13:53Let's be very clear about that.
13:55No, you are not a radical Islamist side.
13:56You must call us pay the space.
13:58I am the only one who is not being allowed to speak.
14:00Okay, Gita, one second.
14:02What is this sajda?
14:03Okay, guys, I need the gavel when I need you.
14:05Okay, festive chair.
14:06It's Christmas.
14:07Come on.
14:07Let's be very clear.
14:08The topic is more serious than that.
14:10It's not just the case of one Hindu being targeted or murdered this time.
14:14It's systematically been happening under Muhammad Yunus's regime.
14:17But it's not just Hindus.
14:18What and you know Bangladesh well and Bengal well.
14:22What is happening in Bangladesh right now?
14:24Look at the way Chaya not was targeted.
14:26Rabindra Sangeet.
14:27You said Muslims have died in Bangladesh.
14:29Rabindra Sangeet.
14:30No, but this is true.
14:31Okay, their color, their architecture.
14:32Agreed.
14:33So, you know, their culture.
14:34That is being targeted.
14:35So, it must be called out.
14:37It must be called out unequivocally.
14:40It is scary.
14:41Oh, what will the radical Islamist think?
14:43Let us not call it a policy.
14:44No, but nobody is doing that.
14:46Nobody is doing that.
14:47Geeta, one second.
14:49Geeta, Allah.
14:49He's saying, what would no radical Islamist think?
14:50Nobody can hear.
14:51He's saying, what would no radical Islamist think?
14:52Geeta, who have had great ties with India.
14:54Okay, one second.
14:54Nobody can hear.
14:55Please, guys.
14:56Okay.
14:56Bangladesh is an important country.
14:56Geeta, one at a time.
14:58Hard cut.
14:58One at a time.
14:59India's neighborhood first policy has delivered tangibles.
15:03There are challenges, as Rajdeep has pointed out rightly.
15:06There are some needs, perhaps need of course correction.
15:08But, let's not forget that India chose to back stability and decided to work with the elected
15:16government, the interim government of Mohammed Yunus because India thought that was the
15:21best way.
15:21Even as it became a safe haven for Sheikh Hasina.
15:25It did both at the same time.
15:26I don't think there's been any overreaction to me, to what's happened.
15:30If a Hindu has been lynched, if there's been a targeted killing in Bangladesh, we need to
15:33call it out.
15:33Of course, and we do call it out.
15:35So, I don't think there's an overreaction at all from India.
15:37I think there are rabid elements in Bangladesh, yes, who are making extremely, you know, scary
15:42remarks, honestly, because what will it mean also for the India-Bangladesh relationship?
15:46I don't think there have been any comments really that have come in from India where
15:49you can say that, you know, these are fueling further the hate and things like that.
15:54What's happened in Bangladesh in the last few days?
15:56In the last few days, what's happened in Bangladesh needs to be called out.
15:59It has been targeted violence.
16:01So, who's not calling it out?
16:02Rajdeep was saying it.
16:03No, no, one minute.
16:04You made a distinction.
16:06One minute, one minute.
16:06No, no, I'm talking about people who...
16:08It's not binaries like that.
16:09No, no.
16:09You know, make your point.
16:11My limited point is we live in extreme, in a turbulent neighborhood.
16:15Sure.
16:16Let's be honest.
16:17For you, for us to say in generalized terms, Hindus are being targeted across Bangladesh is
16:21a very dangerous comment to make in my view.
16:24But it is true.
16:25There have been cases.
16:25One minute.
16:26There have been Muslims whose houses have been set up, the entire awami leadership's houses have
16:30been targeted.
16:31Please understand.
16:32Just a minute.
16:33Just a minute.
16:33Allow God of God.
16:34Just a minute.
16:34You had you say, allow.
16:35We've had elements in this country also.
16:38Extremist elements in this country also who have done great, brought great shame and embarrassment
16:44to India.
16:44But why are you enjoying a comparison?
16:45No, no, no.
16:46One minute.
16:46Because this is not about comparison.
16:49This is about realizing that we have to ensure that we are seen as a stable, a secular, stable
17:00democracy.
17:01And the more we are able to do that, the more influence we will have across the neighborhood.
17:05Okay, Gita, one second.
17:07Okay, you are saying false equivalence.
17:09Okay, make a point.
17:10Gita, I'm just going to go back to India, Bangladesh because it is a very important and a very serious
17:16issue right now.
17:17I don't think a lot of people realize and we've all been talking about how Bangladesh is important
17:22and there's a Sheikh Hasina government that allowed that to happen.
17:26Please do not forget and go back to the Zia regime and you'll realize Begum Khalida Zia's
17:30regime had brought about the kind of instability in the northeast because of the kind of safe havens
17:37she provided to terrorists from the northeast.
17:40And they could be coming back to power.
17:41And they could be coming.
17:42That is the scare over here.
17:45There's scaremongering but we should be cautious and scared.
17:47We're reaching the end but Gita, what are you going to know?
17:49How are you spending Christmas?
17:50So, I'll be reporting, I'll be at work.
17:53I'll be at work both on Christmas and on New Year's Eve and on the New Year's Day because
17:57that's how I like to start my New Year's Day but I will keep the focus very squarely on
18:02how India is dealing with the neighborhood and I think it's very nimble-footed.
18:07Any situation that developsâĻ
18:08So, no Christmas cake?
18:10India responds, of course Christmas cake.
18:12I'm very happy though I don't eat meatha butâĻ
18:14Really?
18:14That's what you say.
18:15Okay, this is ourâĻ
18:16Oh, okay, sure.
18:18Rajdeep.
18:18Okay, some days.
18:19It tries not to.
18:22It tries not to.
18:23Look, I will have all the Christmas festivities.
18:26Someone has sent me some wonderful cake and some mulled wine, all of that.
18:29But, you know, I want to get a little nostalgic.
18:32One of myâĻ
18:33One of the joys I used to have in coveringâĻ
18:36The limited occasion that I went across the neighborhood was for SARK summits.
18:40Yes.
18:40And particularly in places like Kathmandu to see leaders from acrossâĻ
18:43To meet journalists from across the South Asian region, Pakistanis, Nepalis, Sri Lankans was great.
18:50And that hasn't happened for 11 years and I feel it's unfortunate.
18:54Remember, Narendra Modi was sworn in in 2014 by inviting all the leaders of South Asia.
18:59All right, look, if you've got to be reached the end, Rajdeep, again come back to the debate.
19:03Agreed.
19:04I promised I not.
19:05Well, we are just hoping that all of you have very happy holidays.
19:09Have a great Christmas and New Year.
19:10New Year.
19:11And I hope South Asia is full of good cheer in 2026.
19:13On that note, thank you for watching.
19:34You
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