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In this episode of Newstrack, the focus is on the controversy surrounding New York City's new Mayor, Zohran Mamdani, who wrote a letter to jailed Indian activist Umar Khalid.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching NewsTrack with me, Maria Shakil.
00:03From the corridors of power in New York City to the political battlegrounds of New Delhi,
00:10the case of a jailed activist is once again drawing global attention.
00:15Just days after being sown in as New York's new mayor, Zohran Mamdani has landed in the middle of a political controversy,
00:23this time over a letter he wrote to Delhi riots accused Umar Khaled.
00:28The letter, now public, has reignited an international debate on civil liberties, prolonged incarceration and due process,
00:37even as US lawmakers step in, urging India to grant bail and ensure a fair trial.
00:43Back home, the reactions have been swift and sharply divided, with the opposition welcoming the global scrutiny,
00:50while the ruling party and the right-wing groups accuse foreign leaders of interfering in India's internal and judicial matters.
00:59So is this a genuine expression of concern for human rights, or an attempt to internationalize a sensitive domestic issue?
01:08We'll discuss that with the panelists who will be joining me shortly, but first up, here's a look at this report.
01:14Zohran Mamdani has taken office as the new mayor of New York City.
01:26But even as celebrations continue, Mamdani is back in the headlines.
01:30This time, over a letter he wrote to Delhi riot case accused Umar Khaled.
01:35In the note, Mamdani struck an emotional tone,
01:37writing that he often reflects on Khaled's words about resisting bitterness, even in difficult times.
01:43He also mentioned meeting Khaled's parents and conveyed that many people were thinking of him.
01:48The letter became public after it was shared by Khaled's partner on social media.
02:07This is not the first time Mamdani has spoken about Umar Khaled.
02:23In 2023, at an event in New York, Mamdani had read out excerpts from a letter written by Khaled,
02:29where he spoke about not allowing his incarceration to turn into bitterness.
02:34There's also growing international attention to Khaled's case.
02:37Eight U.S. lawmakers have written to the Indian ambassador in Washington,
02:41urging that Umar Khaled be granted bail and a free and fair trial.
02:46The lawmakers cited concerns over prolonged pre-trial detention in India
02:50and emphasised the importance of due process.
02:55Back home, the developments have triggered sharp political reactions.
02:59Leaders from the Congress and the India bloc have welcomed international attention,
03:02calling the intervention significant and reiterating
03:06that bail is the rule, jail, the exception.
03:09The government of the Congress and the Senators have said that it is a global news.
03:17The mayor is not so important, but the Congress and Senators have said that it is a very important thing.
03:24The B.J.P. however, has pushed back strongly,
03:47highlighting a photograph of Rahul Gandhi with one of the U.S. lawmakers who signed the letter.
03:52The party questioned why individuals Rahul Gandhi meets abroad
03:56often take positions it claims go against India's national interests.
04:05Rahul Gandhi should understand the weight of the responsibility
04:10that has been bestowed upon him by the people of this country.
04:15The V.J.P. has also criticised Mamdani, questioning his right to comment on India's legal processes.
04:34The V.J.P. accused him of selective outrage,
04:37alleging silence on attacks on temples and Hindus in the U.S.,
04:40and questioned whether Mamdani's support for Umar Khalid is driven by religious considerations.
04:4638-year-old Umar Khalid was arrested in September 2020 and faces multiple charges.
05:11He has also been charged under multiple sections of the UAPA.
05:16Earlier, the Delhi police in its charge sheet claimed that the riots were well-designed and orchestrated
05:21and the ultimate aim was regime change.
05:25Delhi courts have repeatedly denied Umar regular bail,
05:29though he has been granted interim bail on limited occasions for family reasons.
05:33Most recently, Khalid was given temporary bail from December 16 to December 29 to attend his sister's wedding.
05:41This, under strict conditions, including a gag order and a ban on social media use.
05:47As international voices grow louder, the debate continues.
05:51Are Mamdani and U.S. lawmakers expressing genuine concern over civil liberties,
05:55or are they interfering in India's internal affairs?
05:59Bureau Report, India Today.
06:00Joining me on the news track tonight, Ashok Sajanhar, former diplomat.
06:06Lieutenant General Tiny Dhillon joins us.
06:09We also have Adele Nazarian, who is a senior fellow at Gold Institute for International Strategy.
06:15Ajay Jain Bhutoria is a former advisor to President Biden and also a Democratic Party leader.
06:22Lieutenant General Tiny Dhillon, first question to you.
06:26How should India respond when foreign lawmakers and mayors comment publicly on sensitive cases?
06:35Good evening, Shahi, ma'am, and good evening to our fellow panelists and our viewers.
06:41Whatever is happening in India, we are a democratic country.
06:45We are a country that is being run by a constitution,
06:47and we have a very independent and strong judiciary with a very strong track record
06:52of judicial non-favoritism.
06:56Anyone to raise questions about our judicial system and some people from within the country
07:02trying to spot it or trying to make political points,
07:05I think that's most unfortunate.
07:08U.S. is a democracy, and Mr. Mamdani has been elected in a democratic manner as a mayor of New York.
07:15He should understand how democracies work.
07:17Democracies do not interfere with each other's internal matters.
07:21Democracies support the strong pillars of democracy, and judiciary is one of them.
07:26If anyone has an issue, they have the courts open to them.
07:30They can go and file a complaint or a plea against whatever is happening to a particular gentleman or otherwise.
07:37But this way, interfering in an independent democratic country's judicial system
07:42and making remarks against it, I think is most unfortunate.
07:47And other unfortunate part is some political, you know, being taken out of it.
07:53I think this is not the way a country should be run.
07:55Okay. Mr. Batoria, coming to you, does Mr. Mamdani really know how the Indian courts
08:04and what the Indian courts have said in the context of Umar Khalid
08:08and why his bail has been denied repeatedly over the last so many years that he has been in jail?
08:17I don't think Mamdani knows the details of what has been going in the court.
08:22And why has he jumped the gun?
08:24Exactly. And I mean, he has a right to support any of his friends.
08:29And if Umar Khalid is one of his friends, he has a right to support his friend
08:33and write a support letter or whatever he can do to the government of India
08:39and to requesting for his support.
08:41But he does not have a support to interfere in the judicial system of India.
08:46India is a democratic country and it has its own law.
08:48And the law should take the action and the law decides what is right and what is wrong
08:53and who is supposed to be...
08:55But are you not worried, Mr. Batoria, since Mamdani has the background of your party,
09:01that this is not being seen as a genuine concern for civil rights or anything.
09:07This is being seen as political posturing because he is anti the current establishment in India.
09:15Well, I mean, as you said, he's a part of the Democratic Party,
09:17but the Democratic Party is very much divided right now.
09:20Mamdani is to far left and the centrist and the people who are in the middle of the party
09:26are not happy with Mamdani, even though he's democratically elected.
09:30And he has.
09:32But we still support him because he's still part of the party.
09:35But that does not represent the position of the party, what Mamdani says.
09:38And neither does...
09:40Today, ICE is arresting thousands and hundreds of people in the U.S.
09:44India will not go and say, hey, why did you arrest this particular Sikh person?
09:49Yes, India is not doing it.
09:51India is not doing that.
09:52India cannot do that.
09:52The U.S. will say it is our law.
09:55They have violated our law.
09:56And where we have arrested them, many Indians are arrested today through the ICE.
10:01And people reach out to me and to many others saying, oh, we cannot find our kids or where they are and where they are.
10:08We have to go through the law to find out in which ICE detention they are.
10:12And same thing.
10:13I mean, this person, Omar Khalid, if he has violated the Indian law, the Indian judicial system will take care of him.
10:19And he will be given due process.
10:21And anybody can write a letter of support or request.
10:25In fact, as early as May 2024, that was a year and a half ago, the courts have reaffirmed saying that there is no changed circumstances.
10:36In fact, the reason why the courts have been denying bail, they have held that the prosecution's case and charge sheet show a prime of aside truth to the allegations of his role in the larger conspiracy behind the 2020 Delhi riots.
10:52So it would be advisable for Mr. Mamdani to not make this a human rights case, but go with the facts of the case, because there is a judicial process playing out here in India.
11:04Let me bring in Ambassador Sajjanhar.
11:06Ambassador Sajjanhar, with comments of this nature coming in from the mayor of New York City, could this set a precedent for foreign interference in India's internal affairs?
11:17Yeah, thank you very much, Maria, for having me and a very happy new year to you, the panelists and all the viewers and listeners.
11:25Yes, I think there is an unfortunate trend.
11:27It has started.
11:28But I don't think it will be able to, you know, get any further steam.
11:34The reason because both of the earlier panelists, they have stated, you know, India is a robust democracy.
11:39India has an independent judiciary and its track record is very well known the world over.
11:46It is not, you know, a tin pot democracy like anywhere you can put anyone behind bars.
11:52It is not a closed society that, you know, once you put a person behind bars, nothing is known about him.
11:58You know, as you have very rightly pointed out, and as Mr. Bhattoria also said, obviously, due diligence has not been done either by Mr. Mamdani or by these six Congress representatives and two senators who have written on this.
12:14Otherwise, they would have known that this matter has been gone into in great detail.
12:20There are very many human rights activists in India also who have been talking about giving bail to Omar Khalid.
12:27And the case has gone to the highest court, to the Supreme Court, to the high court multiple times.
12:33And because of the nature of the charges, the Supreme Court in its own wisdom and the high court in their wisdom, they have determined that the case is so sensitive that bail cannot be granted.
12:45Now, it is said that, you know, bail should be the rule and incarceration should be the exception, right?
12:52But there are also exceptions to the rule.
12:55And this seems to be one of those cases.
12:57Okay.
12:58The last point here, Maria, if you permit, just one, 10 seconds, that the case is subjudized.
13:04You know, when the case is subjudized, how can you sort of ride over the determination by the judiciary
13:12and say that, you know, bail should be granted, they should wait for the case to be over.
13:18And after that, whatever they have to say, let them talk about it.
13:21You know, perhaps that he has been in jail for a little over five years.
13:26That's the reason why this, you know, now…
13:31Concern.
13:32I can understand that.
13:33But the larger question is that this has reached the level of the Supreme Court and the denial of the bail is on reasons that we know about.
13:43So perhaps Mr. Mamdani should also be going through the judicial facts of the case rather than, you know, talking about…
13:50This will be seen as an interference in India's internal matters and raising questions on the functioning of the judiciary as well.
13:58Adele, come in now.
13:59How common is it for the U.S. mayors or leaders to influence foreign legal cases?
14:05Thank you for this.
14:06Look, there's always cases where throughout the world one, you know, political party is going to accuse the other of interfering in the other affairs of the different parties and whatnot.
14:17I have to tell you, what Mamdani is doing, Mayor Mamdani is doing, is not common.
14:23It's actually a very serious, serious, aggressive and national security concern.
14:29I mean, we have to realize this, and I think this is a good bulletin to Mayor Mamdani.
14:34Every serious democracy survives on one principle and one principle alone, above all rather than that.
14:39That's the rule of law, and the rule of law applies equally.
14:42We have to keep in mind here, Omar Khalid is not being held for a tweet or a slogan.
14:48He's being prosecuted under India's anti-terror framework for alleged conspiracy linked to mass communal violence.
14:55People died.
14:56Muslims and Hindus both died because of this man's rhetoric, violent rhetoric.
15:00And here we have the mayor of New York coming in and really setting a dangerous precedent for the United States by writing a letter to this guy and making him seem like a Nelson Mandela.
15:11I mean, it is insane.
15:13Would America accept a foreign mayor publicly writing to, let's say, fentanyl traffickers, to individuals charged under U.S. national security statutes while cases are still pending?
15:27Of course they wouldn't.
15:28Of course they wouldn't.
15:29And national security cannot operate on selective sympathy.
15:34Yes, absolutely.
15:36And I think that's what it is.
15:37Selective sympathy is unacceptable.
15:39And India is being held to a very unfair standard here.
15:43And it really reminds me of another country in the Middle East that's also being held to a very, very unfair standard.
15:49Common themes.
15:50Okay, you know, this nature of scrutiny which is happening with regards to this case, Lieutenant General Dhillon, would you say that this international lobbying which is happening on this case can pose a serious national security risk as Adele was highlighting?
16:06I see this as a national security risk, I can see this as some sort of a trouble which can be, you know, ignited by such a selective approach.
16:17We are a country where all religions, all people of all caste, creed, religion, language and ethnicity, we stay together as a very nicely homogenous bunch of people.
16:28So such things can actually ignite and some people within the country can take political advantage out of it and create mischief.
16:36It's not a national security issue per se, but yes, it's a security issue from internal security point of view.
16:43And I will again say, we have one of the world's largest Muslim population in our country.
16:50And we have been living peacefully for centuries.
16:52So such thing to interfere with other countries' judicial system, I think is most unfortunate and best avoided.
17:00But if somebody is not doing, then what would you tell him?
17:02Or should India take it up with the foreign affairs ministry?
17:09I mean, how will it really play out, Ambassador Sajanar?
17:13Can India register a formal complaint that this is not done?
17:18Yeah, thank you for that question, Maria.
17:21If you permit, I'll just make one comment before that.
17:24You know that as far as India, in India it is concerned the due process of law is being followed.
17:29And I think everyone around should know about it, even if they don't know the specificities of the case.
17:35They should realize that, you know, in India nothing can be done sort of, you know, in a very ham-handed or high-handed manner.
17:42Second thing, there are so many cases.
17:45You know, there are so many Muslims, the Uyghurs in China who have been incarcerated.
17:50And as far as the religion is concerned, everything against the religion is being done to them.
17:56As far as Bangladesh is concerned, there are so many minorities who are being persecuted, who are being killed and burned.
18:06I don't see any of these either eight congressmen or Zohran Mamdani saying anything about that.
18:13So, you know, this appears to be, as we've been talking about, very selective.
18:16Now, as far as lodging the protest with the State Department, I don't think any of that would be necessary because, you know, these are congressmen.
18:24They are not state government officials.
18:27I think what is going to happen is because details about this missive, this communication to our ambassador in Washington, D.C.
18:35have just come out this morning.
18:37I'm sure this question is going to be asked in, you know, next week to our official spokesperson in the Ministry of External Affairs.
18:46And he is going to give exactly a similar answer that we are talking about, that the case is subjudiced, that the whole, that India is a democratic country with an independent judiciary.
18:58And the law will take its own course.
19:01There is rule of law in India.
19:03So, I don't think there is any need to raise a complaint or, you know, take up the matter on an official basis because parliamentarians will say what they have to say.
19:12But I think it will be taken care of through a question and a response by our official spokesperson.
19:19Okay, Ajay Pitoria, don't you get the sense, perhaps the Democratic Party, I'm asking that question, doesn't the Democratic Party get the sense that here is a mayor who's trying to not just create trouble for his own party,
19:33but also trying to influence or perhaps, you know, create tension between two countries?
19:43Absolutely. I mean, strongly condemn what Mamdani is doing.
19:47And when Mamdani was campaigning, he was putting out poison against Prime Minister Modi, which was not required.
19:54He was talking all nonsense and shit against Prime Minister Modi and what happened in Ahmedabad, which was, you know, even the courts have denied that.
20:03And he also spoke against Hindus. So, the large majority of Indian Americans or Hindu Americans are not in support of Mamdani, but he got elected.
20:14The other angle is that Mamdani is also supported and funded by George Soros.
20:18These are the same people who have been instigating riots in Bangladesh or Nepal or other places.
20:24So, there is a bigger picture which we will be seeing that today is Umar Khalid, tomorrow it might be someone from Kashmir activities.
20:32So, this will be an ongoing thing. I see a trend emerging, possibly emerging out from Mamdani, who could be a spoke person for, you know, Muslim terrorists or folks who have been in different regions in India.
20:47That's a strong word. I mean, is there a condemnation coming to this extent that Mr. Mamdani has no support whatsoever from his own party?
20:56I mean, majority part of the center part of the party does not support Mamdani, but he won't because he has a Bernie Sanders.
21:04There's 24% Bernie Sanders party supporters who support Mamdani. I did not support Mamdani.
21:10Okay. Yes, please. Go ahead, Adele.
21:16I just want to add something. Thank you for that. You know, you have to look at who he selected.
21:21This should come as no surprise to anyone watching this program that Mamdani would do such a thing.
21:27He chose Ramzi Qasem as New York's chief counsel. Ramzi, by the way, once supported an Al-Qaeda terrorist convicted of bombing, of a bombing that killed an American, a civilian.
21:38And he also represented pro-Hamas activist Mahmoud Khalil.
21:44So this is just one example of who he's tapped as people to be part of his team.
21:48You also have to look at the fact that he selected failed progressive Biden nominee Julie Su as his top economic justice aide.
21:56She, of course, wasn't confirmed because news came to light that she failed to basically have a clean, good record for business.
22:04I mean, he's choosing an economic advisor, basically economic justice advisor, someone who caused catastrophic unemployment fraud during COVID, who basically hurt small businesses.
22:15And last but not least, you have Catherine Almato da Costa, who he tapped as his office of, to lead his office of appointments.
22:24This woman had social media posts that were defund the police, basically completely erased the police presence in New York City, which is supposed to defend the people.
22:35And highly anti-Semitic, Jewish, anti-Jewish posts.
22:40And I'm just going to get to the last one, too, if I may say.
22:43The last one, crazy, not so crazy, completely to be expected.
22:47He tapped Alex Vitale.
22:49Have you guys heard of him?
22:50This guy has a book that he wrote called The End of Policing.
22:54This guy was tapped as his community safety committee head.
22:59And this man has outwardly spoken about and basically been an activist for defunding the police in New York and actually wrote a book about it.
23:09And these are the people that Mayor Mamdani has selected to surround himself with.
23:15And so it's no surprise that this that this snake is now going ahead and trying to basically damage the U.S.-India relationship, which is a very strong relationship.
23:26Those are strong words that are coming in.
23:28Adele Nazarian, thank you for joining us.
23:31Ambassador Sajan Hart, Leftman General Tiny Dylan and Ajay Bhattoria, thank you for joining us on this broadcast.
23:37And wedding bells are ringing for the Gandhi Wadra family as Rehan Wadra, son of Priyanka Gandhi Wadra and Robert Wadra, has announced his engagement officially today to his longtime partner Aviva Beg.
23:52In fact, he took to his Instagram page to post pictures and said that there was a particular date on which they got engaged.
24:01It was a private engagement ceremony which was held in Ranthambore, which was attended by close friends and family.
24:08I'm leaving you with these visuals.
24:10Good night and thanks for watching.
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