Despite accessing user data, Kohler still says its smart toilet cameras use E2EE
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What a crappy idea, and shitty implementation.
Pun aside the as the article implies I feel comfortable agreeing/assuming the Venn diagram of people who under stand the terms Kohler used, and the people who would use a toilet camera... Are two fully distinct non connecting circles.
Pun aside the as the article implies I feel comfortable agreeing/assuming the Venn diagram of people who under stand the terms Kohler used, and the people who would use a toilet camera... Are two fully distinct non connecting circles.
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XSportSeeker
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Naming it E2EE is foul enough already (for those questioning, the standard for when encryption is used up to server is.... just encryption. Any service that uses encryption up to the server just say they encrypt data, period. The whole entire purpose of the term E2EE for differentiation of standard encryption is exactly to imply the service itself has zero access to users' private data. Telegram, for instance, encrypts data, but E2EE is optional), but it's that plus the fact that the company also uses the misleading if not outright lie that "de-identified" data is, plus fully admitting they'll be using this for AI and sharing it to 3rd parties.
This is f*cking health data, and yet another case of a company playing hooky with costumer's most sensitive information.
My bet on why no one noticed this is because who the f*ck wants a camera on their toilet for that ridiculous price anyways. It's good that the report came out though, so that even those considering an aberration like this knows that the company has zero respect on user privacy. Might as well publish your pics publicly and hope someone looks at WebMD to tell you all about your colorectal cancer.
This is f*cking health data, and yet another case of a company playing hooky with costumer's most sensitive information.
My bet on why no one noticed this is because who the f*ck wants a camera on their toilet for that ridiculous price anyways. It's good that the report came out though, so that even those considering an aberration like this knows that the company has zero respect on user privacy. Might as well publish your pics publicly and hope someone looks at WebMD to tell you all about your colorectal cancer.
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I've read that it can analyse your number two but what of the others?
No. 1: "Clear!"
No. 2: "Too runny!"
No. 3: "Too chunky!"
I apologise in arrears to readers who believed I would stand by my "no toilet humour policy" but I don't actually have that sort of policy.
For those of you in the Yokohama, Japan area, why not stop by the Unco Store?
https://soranews24.com/2025/02/05/g...ree-at-unco-store-poop-themed-goods-boutique/
Also, Toto are set to "release" a similar product...
https://soranews24.com/2025/07/18/t...tech-that-scans-and-keeps-track-of-your-poop/
...for somewhere between 2390 - 2624 quid.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...still-says-its-smart-toilet-cameras-use-e2ee/
No. 1: "Clear!"
No. 2: "Too runny!"
No. 3: "Too chunky!"
I apologise in arrears to readers who believed I would stand by my "no toilet humour policy" but I don't actually have that sort of policy.
For those of you in the Yokohama, Japan area, why not stop by the Unco Store?
https://soranews24.com/2025/02/05/g...ree-at-unco-store-poop-themed-goods-boutique/
Also, Toto are set to "release" a similar product...
https://soranews24.com/2025/07/18/t...tech-that-scans-and-keeps-track-of-your-poop/
...for somewhere between 2390 - 2624 quid.
I found an article which explains why the usage is problematic.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...still-says-its-smart-toilet-cameras-use-e2ee/
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that would basically need a fancy version of the automatic flush in public toilets/urinals, and I'm pretty sure those things aren't photographing people.
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Somewhere in the bowels of Kohler, someone has the job of helping AI classify all the crap it cannot understand.
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The guy who has the job of sifting through and categorizing Turd Pics at Kohler pretty much has, by definition, the world's shittiest job.
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FSTargetDrone
Ars Scholae Palatinae
I have very little sympathy for anybody who goes into this purposely and knowingly buying a toilet with a camera. If you aren’t expecting even the possibility that things might not go right, that’s on you (the user).
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KoshcheiTheDeathless
Ars Centurion
I guess that it stops being sexual assault if you can get the users to install the $600 camera themselves, and then pay the $7/month fee to stream it to you?
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if it can be done, some poor and lost soul will always think it should be done and go do it.
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FranzJoseph
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Tech satire is just dead. No matter how outrageous, any of it will be adopted by techbros.
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"[...] data gathered from Dekoda devices is encrypted from one end (the toilet camera) until it reaches another end, in this case, Kohler’s servers."
Well, at least that data can be wiped.
Well, at least that data can be wiped.
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Well that's fine. I sleep in my bathroom. It's why I have the security camera in my toilet
(/jk)
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Anyone stupid enough to point a web cam at their undercarriage and expect privacy will also buy this bridge I have for sale in Brooklyn.
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So E2E enryption just means they're using HTTPS like (almost) every single webpage on the internet has been for decades. Thats like an extra 6 lines of code compared to unencrypted HTTP. Top notch engineering!
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The sales pitch is that it provides an automated optical analysis of your fecal matter to detect any sorts of health problems your stool might indicate.
They're also really hoping that people don't recognize the countless reasons why they don't need this, even if we assume it's adequately private and works:
- AI image recognition systems are not credible health experts and cannot be any more insightful than what casual knowledge will provide.
- A person with working eyes can be provided that casual knowledge within 10 minutes. Really, you only need to know what consistencies and colors mean. You could even just put a small chart in your bathroom to remind you what fecal anomalies are notable.
- You can just tell your doctor when weird stuff happens. I know healthcare in the U.S. is expensive, but a checkup still runs a lot cheaper than a smart-toilet, and actually gets you that professional opinion and treatment process.
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If they can get the smart toilet to talk to the smart refrigerator then they're on to some real marketing possibilities.
I used to follow a Twitter account that posted about dumb "Internet of Things" ideas using the handle Internet of Shit. Prescient.
I used to follow a Twitter account that posted about dumb "Internet of Things" ideas using the handle Internet of Shit. Prescient.
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Another article says:
The device specifically uses spectroscopy to see how light interacts with your poop, while keeping track of things like how often you go, the consistency of your waste, and its shape. Dekoda can also analyze your urine to see how hydrated you are
...
The app analyzes a range of things, including your bowel movement consistency and frequency, how hydrated you appear to be, and whether there is blood in your stool. All these metrics are sorted into charts that detail this information and how it changes over time. The app also crunches data to deliver insights, like how many sessions you had in a day and a breakdown of the types of stool you passed.
Maybe worth it to someone that doesn't want to look at their poop to look for health changes or maybe for someone with health issues that prevent them from doing so.
As for how it knows it's you:
Not everyone who sits on the toilet will have their output analyzed, though. To use the scanner, you’ll need to hold your phone next to a sensor on the outside of the bowl or use a fingerprint analyzer to get things started. Then, Dekoda will do a continuous scan from the start to finish of your “session.”
It's not a terrible concept and may be useful for some people, but since they do such limited visual analysis, seems like they could have done it all on the device without sending actual photos up to the cloud.
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I looked up how it's supposed to work, but most got ninjaed. The salient points are that it can't provide much more than a superficial inspection which the average person can do themselves without paying hundreds of dollars. At least pulse or blood oxygen is something that has an objective measure. This doesn't, and is fully disclaimed as medical advice.
I do wonder if it's like Amazon Go and instead of AI it's just people looking at another type of go.
They point out that the camera is aimed down. Good thing toilet bowls don't have any reflective surfaces.
I do wonder if it's like Amazon Go and instead of AI it's just people looking at another type of go.
They point out that the camera is aimed down. Good thing toilet bowls don't have any reflective surfaces.
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bites tongue hard...don't say it... don't say it....
But(t) yeah seriously, as someone who has one of those "AI" (barf) baby cams to analyze sleep/wake cycles, turning over, that sort of thing - cameras are fallible. Very fallible. This is purportedly a health device? I wouldn't bother with any of those junk until the sort of tech that astronauts would use in The Martian exist in a toilet I can buy, something that sucks in the waste, chemically analyzes it using a local onboard computer, and then ejects it into the pipe, then somehow sterilizes the inside of that chamber and the inside of the bowl to prevent cross-contamination - that's the only time I would bother getting something like this. No camera. Just chemical analysis.
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If you look at the picture... technically the camera is pointed downwards, not upwards. It's not anal(heh)lyzing butt shape, pimples, etc - it's examining your, ah, leavings.
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Well you see, apparently everyone's anus is even more unique than their fingerprint.
We can thank scientists at Stanford for figuring that out! (and you can find their press release with a simple web search)
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Most manufacturers don't even know what E2EE means, it's just a buzzword. If you asked, 95% of them would tell you that encrypting it from the user end to their server end, where it is de-encrypted and stored in plaintext, is 'End to End Encryption'! Or whenever Meta claims to do it they know what it means, they're just lying criminals as usual.
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Kinda makes me think that's some good shit they're smoking to come up with that idea.
And now we know how they find it...
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