For example, if I talk about "magic", most of you will tell me I'm wrong without even asking me what I mean. You might even insult me.

How common is this? How much of this conversation is actual communication vs just a string of triggering phrases that we react to?

How much of Lemmy is people just barking at their own echo?

  • The_Grinch [he/him]
    ·
    2 days ago

    Yeah? This is a materialist space. If you say something that isn't materialist you're going to have that pointed out to you and asked to take it elsewhere. Magic is by definition that which is not materialist.

    How much effort are we expected to put in to try to understand someone who clearly doesn't want to be understood?

    • Tabitha ☢️[she/her]
      ·
      2 days ago

      There's a ghost who lives in my uncle's attic and he says magic is real but out went to another highschool.

    • Infamousblt [any]
      ·
      2 days ago

      I love how you're talking about materialist thought like you're applying that here. You aren't. Materialism requires investigation. It requires context. You don't have any of that in this instance because you didn't try to ask.

      Sure, let's take magic, because I think that's a fun one and I've had some interesting conversations with folks with different cultural contexts for "magic" in my life. In the white western "Harry Potter" context, magic is bullshit. Wizards can't go around and set fire with magic sticks and summon magic owls or whatever. Great, nobody is arguing that. Probably. If they are, it would be an interesting discussion although probably not a very serious one. Would love to have that conversation though regardless.

      Turns out though there are many, many other historical and cultural contexts for "magic". Those absolutely could be less bullshit. And in those contexts they are less bullshit. Some medicine are called magic or have a strong basis in "magic". Some therapeutic practices are called magic or have a strong basis in "magic." Even within the white western cultural context there is an entire form of theater that is called "magic" and I can assure you that, as a form of art, theater, and entertainment, "magic" is very real. If you disagree with that then you may as well go to your local art gallery and point out how none of the paintings are real either. Ceci n'est pas une pipe indeed.

      But you don't know any of that, you said yourself it is "hard to conceive" any of this. It's hard for your to concieve because you have absolutely zero interest in knowing. You didn't ask. You decided with literally zero investigation that you were automatically correct, and chose to fight about it because how dare someone say something "wrong" on the internet. You saw one thing exactly one way, did zero thought past that, and attacked. You had a chance to learn something, to grow and expand your knowledge of the world we live in, to find connection with others in a community you're choosing to participate in, to find common ground....and you chose to fight instead. For absolutely no fucking reason.

      What you and many users who jump automatically to bad faith "I'm right you're wrong lalalala" arguments fail to realize is that without investigation, without thought, without context, you're not being materialist at all. You're being an idealist lib at best and an absolute fucking asshole at worst.

      No investigation, no right to speak. So users like you should actually, legitimately, unironically shut the fuck up before you decide to crawl down someone's throat when you perceive them as being wrong. Instead, ask why, ask what they mean. Investigate, like materialists should.

      You won't though, you're not here to listen, learn, or participate in community. You're here to prove how right and smart you are. You and the users like you are by far the #1 problem with Hexbear, toxic "I'm right you're wrong" posting with zero thought or investigation. Maybe someday we'll find a way to cure the site of this sort of absolutely toxic libshit.

      Anyway, good post OP, I should go back to the local magic show near me because it's hella fun, so thanks for reminding me.

      • fannin [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        2 days ago

        This is just obscurantist language, like Spinoza calling the material universe God. That is not what anyone using the term means outside of extreme edge cases.

        • Infamousblt [any]
          ·
          2 days ago

          This is just racism, completely ignoring cultural contexts outside of your own

          • fannin [he/him, he/him]
            ·
            2 days ago

            I live in the US. My cultural context is evangelical Christian fascism.

            If your idea of “magic” doesn’t entail the belief in the supernatural, fine, I don’t really have a problem with it, but that’s not what barely anyone means. Unless they’re talking about copperfield.

      • JustSo [she/her, any]
        ·
        2 days ago

        How is magic a better model for investigating and understanding the mechanisms by which these aspects of "magic" are materially real, compared to for example scientific investigation?

      • 389aaa [it/its]
        ·
        2 days ago

        Excellent post and I entirely agree. Just wanted to let you know that.