define with concise and quantifiable metrics for what constitutes a real fan of DC

Let’s look at some arguments against Batman.

“He beats up poor people.”

You could, again, say this about any rich superhero, but Batman doesn’t “beat up poor people.” Most of the people he fights are rich and wealthy crime lords who hurt innocent people in his city. That’s what the entire Court of Owls storyline is about. And even if the criminals are poor, these are still people who are going out of their way to choose to rape, kill, and maim people. The criminals who are criminals because they are poor—Batman gives them tons of job opportunities.

If someone is a pimp who pimps out underage girls, and is a rapist, an assassin, or a gang leader, should we not stop them because “they are poor”? Especially when they make so much money they could retire or go legit?

“He beats up the mentally ill.”

Again, Joker is doing what he’s doing because he wants to, and this is an insult to mentally ill people, because there are tons of mentally ill people who choose not to commit evil acts and want to treat their mental illness. Batman’s rogues gallery is not—and again, most supervillains are mentally ill—so this point is stupid.

“He recruits children.”

Teen Titans—the sidekicks of damn near every League member. And then they might say, “Well, they have powers.” They are still fighting threats that can kill them. Also, by this argument, you’re basically saying a teen should not be a superhero because he has no powers.

“Why doesn’t he use his wealth to help Gotham?”

Literally every comic, animated show, and movie shows he’s using his wealth to help Gotham.

A real fan of DC does not make these stupid arguments because they know it’s objectively false.

your opinions don’t ALWAYS correspond with reality.

If you don’t have knowledge of something, then you can’t really discuss it. Someone can’t and shouldn’t talk about Israel vs. Palestine if they don’t know anything about the history of the conflict.

And I think there are objectively some things that make you a fan of something, especially when most arguments against Batman are false. If you read one issue of one comic, or watch ONE episode—hell, HALF an episode—of Batman, how can you claim to be a fan of something, yet know NOTHING about the character outside of surface-level stuff?

Do I like Mario? Sure. Do I like his games? Sure. Did I like the movie? Yeah. Did I like the second one? No, not really. Am I a fan of Mario? No. Do I like it? Sure—but I don’t know much about the character to say I’m a fan. I can at least admit it.

Do I like Star Trek? Yes. Am I a ‘Trekkie’? No, because I only really like the three Star Trek movies with Chris Pine, the Original Series, and TNG and Voyager—and that’s it. So I’m not a ‘fan,’ and it would be disingenuous for someone to say, ‘you aren’t a Trekkie or a real Mario fan,’ and then for me to get offended when I genuinely am not.

“never read a comic” part though just hurts any argument.

Actually, no, it doesn’t hurt any argument, and I will prove it to you.

Let’s look at some arguments against Batman.

“He beats up poor people.”

You could, again, say this about any rich superhero, but Batman doesn’t “beat up poor people.” Most of the people he fights are rich and wealthy crime lords who hurt innocent people in his city. That’s what the entire Court of Owls storyline is about. And even if the criminals are poor, these are still people who are going out of their way to choose to rape, kill, and maim people. The criminals who are criminals because they are poor—Batman gives them tons of job opportunities.

If someone is a pimp who pimps out underage girls, and is a rapist, an assassin, or a gang leader, should we not stop them because “they are poor”? Especially when they make so much money they could retire or go legit?

“He beats up the mentally ill.”

Again, Joker is doing what he’s doing because he wants to, and this is an insult to mentally ill people, because there are tons of mentally ill people who choose not to commit evil acts and want to treat their mental illness. Batman’s rogues gallery is not—and again, most supervillains are mentally ill—so this point is stupid.

“He recruits children.”

Teen Titans—the sidekicks of damn near every League member. And then they might say, “Well, they have powers.” They are still fighting threats that can kill them. Also, by this argument, you’re basically saying a teen should not be a superhero because he has no powers.

“Why doesn’t he use his wealth to help Gotham?”

Literally every comic, animated show, and movie shows he’s using his wealth to help Gotham.

People who use these arguments literally have not read a comic, nor are they Batman or DC/Marvel fans in general.

“probably just want to be included in the discussion”

If you have no real knowledge of something you can’t discuss it.

they have jobs

What jobs do they have?

The people in my previous post have a problem with Batman being a billionaire and recruiting kids. If you were a real fan, you would suspend disbelief and realize it’s a fictional story. We watch Law & Order because they live in a world where cops actually care about victims, and we want to live in a world where cops are reformed and act like them. We are aware that it’s unrealistic, but we suspend disbelief.

Batman being rich—same with Iron Man—is just a part of the character, so suspend disbelief. Robin and Batgirl have been a part of Batman lore for centuries. The reason I say they aren’t real fans is because they aren’t—they hop on the Batman bandwagon hate train because it’s popular. That’s it.

They don’t have this same criticism for Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, Emma Frost, Kate Bishop, Swordsman, Sunspot, and every other rich superhero. They don’t have a problem with the rest of the league that recruits children as sidekicks. If you don’t like Batman because he’s rich and has a sidekick, that’s fine—but extend that same level of dislike to every other rich superhero. That’s all—be consistent.

If you are a real fan and have an issue with Batman, then I would have to assume this same argument applies to the characters I just mentioned.

In Absolute Batman, Bruce isn’t rich—he’s a working-class construction worker. And for an “altering what-if” story, that’s fine. But you still have to explain some things, because him being “poor” plays no part in the story at all. He still has gadgets, a Batmobile, a dump truck, etc. He never struggles with money, and Martha is still alive. So again, please explain: how does he have all this equipment if he’s not wealthy? And why be Batman if his mom is alive? Please explain this.

How about you try and engage in a good faith argument?

Why?

Actually, I kind of do. If you don’t like politics, then why comment on it? If you don’t care about Palestine or Palestinians, then why engage with it? If you aren’t a fan of Batman or DC, then why comment under all my comments? You are free to leave.

I’m not allowed to engage because I don’t want to tell you my opinion on Batman?

This entire discussion is about Batman, and maybe to some extent other superheroes. Why would I (an actual Batman fan) engage in a discussion about Batman with someone who’s not a fan? If you aren’t a real fan, why engage in this discussion at all?

‘I’m not allowed to engage because I don’t want to tell you my opinion on Batman?’ This whole discussion is about Batman. This post I wrote is about fucking Batman. It would be like having a political discussion and then me saying, ‘Well, I don’t want to give my opinions on the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, or explain my views.’ Okay, then why talk politics?

Then why engage then? Are you fan or no? If not then block me and get off my page.

Then what is your opinion on Batman?

brought up other reasons to prefer Moon Knight over Batman

Again, this person is not a real fan because they don’t know what they are talking about. If we are being honest, Moon Knight is worse than Batman, because he was a mercenary who went to Egypt, killed people, and then was resurrected. Then he used the money that he made from killing innocent people and became a billionaire—not a millionaire, a billionaire. Look it up—his net worth canonically is $2.3 billion.

This person said Moon Knight was trying to atone for it. No, he didn’t. He didn’t give all his wealth away, lol. He lived in a white mansion, had a moon cave, and only used the socialite personality to gain info on the crime lords in the area. He also doesn’t have a no-kill rule—he straight-up killed criminals.

You know the “Batman only beats up poor people” argument? That’s not actually true. Well, if you believe that, then you would see Moon Knight is a billionaire who “brutally straight-up murdered every poor person he came across.” This is why I don’t engage with him or you. YOU AREN’T A REAL FAN. If you were, you would know this.

for a healthy discussion

No, it’s honest—you are not a real fan. You are objectively not, and here’s how I know: because you are one of those people who just hate Batman because he’s popular. Your arguments are used by people who are not actual fans—that is a fact. Again, can you please explain to me your opinion on Blue Beetle, Green Arrow, and Sunspot?

you may want to look up whataboutism

Again, you are just throwing “whataboutism” around because you can’t logically answer the question. The answer is simply that you are not a real fan of Marvel and DC. Batman is the most famous superhero, and you have never read a Batman comic or watched a movie. He’s the most famous one, so he’s the easiest to criticize because he’s popular. Again, do you have this criticism for:

Moon Knight Charles Xavier Iron Man Green Arrow Iron Fist Blue Beetle Sunspot Emma Frost If you have a problem with sidekicks, do you then have a problem with: Captain America The Flash Wonder Woman Superman Martian Manhunter Aquaman Green Arrow (who’s a straight-up Batman copycat) Etc., etc. Can you just answer that question? If not, then just say: “Yeah, I’m not a real fan. I know nothing about these characters. I’m just jumping on the bandwagon because Batman is the most famous hero, and I know nothing about Marvel and DC because I’m not a real fan.”

“you may want to look up whataboutism”

"I dont feel talking about any other superhero whos very similar to Batman who does the same shit he does so I’m just going to say “whataboutism”.

You aren’t a fan just say that.

This is known as gatekeeping.

There is literally nothing wrong with gatekeeping and yes there is such a thing as a “real fan”

Again, it’s clear you aren’t an actual fan of Batman, DC Comics, or Marvel in general. I know this because the argument you have for Batman doesn’t apply to any other superhero who is richer than him, or any other superhero with a sidekick. It’s always ‘Batman endangers children,’ despite the fact that the entire Justice League endangers children too.

But if you would like, James Gunn can write Bruce Wayne adopting Dick Grayson at 25 years old, and Dick can become Robin while being adopted as a grown man—if that’s what you want. In fact, all the Teen Titans can be 30+ year-old sidekicks if you want, just so we don’t ‘endanger children.’

Funny how you didn’t bring up Daredevil in this list, because in Season 2 of Born Again, he’s fine with Hector’s niece—who’s like 13 years old—being White Tiger, despite her uncle getting killed doing it. Matt had no qualms about it.

So your arguments aren’t worth engaging with. And Absolute Batman is so badly written—because if he’s dirt poor, how the hell does he afford his suit, gadgets, materials for armor, and a supercar? If he’s poor, then you need to explain how he’s doing all this.

And if Martha is alive, then why should I take Absolute Batman seriously at all? And why have Batman keep a no-kill rule? He’s basically just The Punisher now, so you might as well go all in—give him a bunch of guns and have him start shooting every criminal he sees. If he’s Punisher, then just go full Punisher.

Absolute Batman is poor as fuck, but he can afford a mining dump truck, fuel for it, the supplies to customize it, a secure place to hide it, and the list goes on.

Also if Martha is alive and if hes working class then why be Batman in the first place?

And why are criminals afraid of this dude?

You aren’t a real Batman fan and thats ok! My post was for real DC fans.

Child endangerment

I hope you have this same energy for literally every single superhero in the DC universe because the Teen Titans literally exist because almost all the justice league members have child sidekicks.

I never said I wasn’t a socialist. I’m genuinely asking—what if I don’t want to work? In a socialist system, everything is basically free, so I don’t have to work.