• 6 Posts
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Joined 3 years ago
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Cake day: July 6th, 2023

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  • It has been proven time and time again that women, immigrants and disabled are less likely to be hired even when they have the same level of qualification. So the real people having a “bonus” are white males. If we can’t break this bias the easy way, the hard way with quotas it is then.

    Except that quotas bring in a lot of other problems and are useless for the worker (source, my wife).
    Would you like to have quotas for doctors or surgeons or nurses ?
    Are you sure that in such cases (like many others where you need years of studies or experience) your hard way is the right path ?

    Anyway I would keep out the disabled, they are entirely another categori with very peculiar problems when speaking about jobs.

    Have you taken a look at those quotas? They are always worded “When candidates have the same qualifications, X will be given preference in hiring”. Nobody is given a job just for who they are.

    Then you are not talking about quotas, you are talking about some sort of racism because X is hired based on the fact that he is in a specific group of people.
    Quotas mandate that you have a certain ratio (simple example: 50/50 ratio between man and women) and force you to hire to reach that ratio, even if the candidate has not the right qualifications.

    A common misconception. Take the article I linked previously: Everyone can apply for a rental apartment. However people with foreign sounding names are not given equal chance of receiving said rental.

    The common misconception is that everyone is entitled to the same outcome. It is not possible (nor desiderable to be honest). Since I suppose that the1000 dollars paid from a white man are not less valuable then the 1000 dollars paid from someone with a foreign sounding name, the landlord make the decision based on other factors, like “this tenant will be able to always pay the rent on time ? Or he will damage the property ?”
    If historically a certain group of people is a headache to rent to I think the landlord is in his rights to try to avoid it. We can discuss if or why a certain group could be an headache to rent to and what to do to try to solve the problem but the landlord is simply making a decision trying to avoid as much problems he can.

    It’s in fact the whole premise of the Civil Rights Movement in the US: Yes, slavary and even segregation was abolished but people still were and are discriminated against on the basis of who they are.

    To be honest, people are discriminated also based on what they do. Except for the Black Friday, how many times have you seen a crowd of white men ransacking a shop and stealing everything ? Not to say that white people don’t steal, but they had not (or have less of) some types of behavior and that reflects on every member of the group.

    People don’t want to be discriminated ? They are right, but once the law abolish discrimination it is up to them to not give reasons to be discriminate, because the law can say that you are not an asshole but if you continue to be an asshole I will treat you like an asshole, law or not.

    “You have problems now? Too bad, maybe in a couple years we can help.” Do I really have to comment on this?

    Do whatever you want. But it was demostrated times and again that laws written to solve a problem in the here and now without thinking in the long term often have unplanned outcome that are worse then the initial problem.

    Coupled with the last paragraph: Have you considered doing both? Helping people in the here and now and also working on long term solutions? Kind of like when breaking a bone a doctor gives you painkillers for the immediate relief and a cast to support the long term healing process?

    Except the situation is something like “I can (try) give you a painkiller now but I have no idea how to heal your bone in the long term”, but I agree that this should be the path.

    No, but you can prevent a good chunk of stupid people from doing stupid stuff by outlawing the stupid stuff.

    You can try, and I agree that we should, but in a structural way, not to just solve the $EMERGENCY_OF_THE_DAY


  • Immigrant is also a “verified” category. We have a whole federal ministry dealing with immigration related topics.

    Also here in a form or another.

    This is not about giving bonuses but eliminating disadvantages.

    You give a “bonus” to an immigrant in the moment you decide that a certain number of jobs must be assigned to them.
    You give a “bonus” to a woman in the moment you decide that a certain number of jobs must be assigned to them. You give a “bonus” to a man in the moment you decide that a certain number of jobs must be assigned to them.

    All are bad it nothing else because you cannot be sure that for that specific job there are enough qualified candidates of the right category to fill all the available positions. Sure, you can ask people to study (help them, offer incentives etc.) for that position, but you cannot force them to study for that position.

    Eliminating disadvantages means that everyone has the opportunity to try (and I totally agree with you that we must aim for this), not that someone could have it easier.
    An immigrant has disadvantages ? Maybe, but to eliminate them you need to work on the causes and this need years, it cannot be done “just because” by law, the end result will be xenophobia (too easy to shout “immigrants takes our jobs”) and the immigrant will still have the same disadvantages the next time since you only closed your eyes on the causes, simply ignoring them without resolving them, hoping they will go away. And sometimes to solve the causes you need to take some unpopular decisions.

    Prejudice and outright xenophobia is a very real thing here still.

    It was a problem also here, and probably it still is. And there are reasons, like there are reasons where you are. Not that they were/are justified or reasonable, but people (intended as masses) are stupid. And stupidity cannot be solved by law.



  • Maybe another reason is that the center left continually ignore what the people are asking their government to do or that the center left is completely dissociated from the reality.

    I mean, if with a war going on in the middle east and all its consequences on the international commerce, the left’s (Italian to be precise and fair) priority in the european parliament is the battle over the air trasport of musical instruments (source in Italian) maybe there is a reason beyond the “someone is doing campaigns against center left and green parties”

    Also, as long as the center left in some way justify crimes “just because the criminal is from $UNLUCKY_GROUP_OF_THE_DAY”, I think the situation is pretty clear.





  • If the birthdate field is just a random number, then I don’t see why anyone cares - it would have less personally identifying information than the MAC address.

    True.

    I thought the whole reason people are up in arms about this is the proposal/hypothetical where the OS is required to validate that field against government ID databases, thus giving a third party - the OS vendor or whatever contractor performs the validation - a link to real world identity of any computer user.

    I agree, but in the end it is nothing new in a professional environment.

    For example in Italy (but I suppose in EU as well), my employer already know my birth date since I am required by law to undergo a medical examination at regular intervals (with the interval depending on the work and age), so this information is already stored in some way and it need to be correct, my company get fined if I am not checked when required. Having it in systemd or in active directory or any other user management system make no difference.

    The problem would arise if there will not be any option to avoid the check, but again, in some countries you cannot ask anything you don’t need to offer the service, and I am pretty sure that the birth date is not necessary to setup an user account on my personal home pc.


  • The point there is that complying with the whims of every town on the planet gets to be unmanageable. A town with <1000 people deciding what fields are present for the other 8 billion is insane.

    Nah, if the problem is the whim of small town I don’t think someone would go to the trouble to implement it. The problem is if the law is from a country, and even in this case it would not be obvious that someone would do something.

    Then there we could start a discussion about how this was handled in Systemd, but it out of scope.

    I picked color as an example for something dumb that wouldn’t matter. I hoped that was obvious.

    I know it was just an example.

    And if you can just lie about it, then why even bother including the field at all?

    Because who write the law do not understand anything about it and they are naive enough to think that everyone will answer sincerely.

    Exactly. How does systemd decide which set of laws to follow? The ones that say you need to report the data or the ones that say you can’t?

    That should be asked to the guy who implemented the feature and to the maintainer of Systemd. But the real problem here is that they think that what US laws say are valid everywere in the world. (Not that I have any confidence that Pottering and the other guy would answer in some intelligent way…)





  • What if Hemmingford, NE passes the same law but wants your favorite color instead of dob?

    You simply input a random color. How they can check if it is true ? Same for any other field.

    What if India says the OS needs to verify your caste, or any number of oppressive countries want your religion as a field? Hell, the US is like one step away from saying your gender assigned at birth needs to be tracked.

    In some countries it would be illegal to ask for such data. (EU for example)

    Then I totally agree that this law is beyond stupid.





  • Building on US tech means the US generally has control over whether you can deploy your military assets, and gives a foreign, militaristic/fascist trending power, deep insights into your military operations. Pretending like these risks are not greater than, or at the very least on par with, “its hard to integrate systems/build our own” is silly.

    I know, but it is not what I said.

    I only pointed out that simple saying “its hard to integrate systems/build our own” did not automagically means that it is said by some US influence campaign or disinformation. It can be the result of an assessment done by someone with some knowledge of the reality.

    The fact is that such thing is hard and if we want to break free from US tech (as much as possible) we should be aware of the fact, which obviously did not mean that we should give up.

    The USA is a threat. They are actively attacking anyone they feel like. They are actively antagonistic towards their “allies” and neutral nations.

    Yep, and if Canada and EU had the balls, they simply would send a message like “man, we own your debt, keep quiet or we could just sell it” and then just sell about 10% to just show how it would feel.