- cross-posted to:
- politics@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- politics@beehaw.org
The Hungarian prime minister concedes to Péter Magyar, who is set to win a supermajority in the 199-seat parliament.
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Finally! Congratulations to the Hungarian voters who voted against the fucking Russian and MAGA stooge. Welcome back to the EU!
This post has been on the top of my home feed all day and it brought a smile to my face every time I opened Lemmy lol
as a Hungarian I’m over the moon 🎆🎆🎆
as non-Hungarians we’re also over the moon 🎆 🎆 🎆
Great!
But let’s not rest on our laurels.
The next step is getting green and social democratic candidates that will garner attention and excite voters, and have a chance to do a good job that will show people that they need to vote in their best interest and those who will defend them.
Conservative liberals are way better than dictators, particularly when they like to sprinkle social policies like taxing the wealthiest more and using the revenue for public services, but they also tend to do stuff that lets things ratchet back to oligarchy.
We also should get the UK to turn back, and Poland, Italy and others to wake up too. And many are still in the edge.
I know! Let’s get Vance to do a tour through Europe! Having him endorse all the people he likes the most! That’ll show the people who they can’t trust.
Lovely work! So much appeal!
Oh and the lady character and the goose are cute too! :p
Couldn’t stuff the ballot boxes fast enough, eh?
As I understand, Hungarian elections were voted as “free, but not fair” by observers.
I.e the ballots would get counted properly, but Orban’s gerrymandered it into oblivion, most media belongs to Orban’s friends, etc. The winning party had every possible disadvantage short of Fidesz actually messing with the ballots themselves.
decent chance this was a mass coalition of popular support to oust a dictator large enough that the dictator understood it was concede gracefully or be drug from the palace by his ankles and then hung publically
Hope Vance comes to Spain to endorse Feijoo (right) and Abascal (extreme right) too. Everytime he endorses someone, this one loses!
I hope he comes to the US and endorses trump to wake up tomorrow
Oh, this one is very good!!! 😂
Wishing for him to come to Sweden and visit our Sweden Democrats.
He could go in a tour around Europe, and start hugging alt right wingers!!!
to be fair they seem to be doing a pretty decent job of getting themselves into jail and ousted from the party
yeah the “one bad apple” party just keeps producing single bad apples
Well the full expression is “one bad apple spoils the barrel”. As in one of them being evil and corrupt generally encourages the other ones to do the same thing. Especially if it’s a high up in the party, they set a precedent.
Also a lot on the right seem to be rich and are using right wing rhetoric as a way to win power, so they’re already from the “laws don’t apply to me” class anyway, so act as per usual.
yeah the expression the party has used, calling them “enskilda rötägg” (literally meaning something like “singular instances of rotten eggs”) doesn’t really translate. interestingly the sweden democrat party members are all mostly working class. they got started as a swedish arm of the BNP so they had basically the same audience, but they’ve cleaned up a lot since the 90’s and unlike the BNP of today no longer say the quiet part out loud.
Yeah, but their main objective is still to throw out all immigants. They don’t really care about anything else, even if they pretend to. And of course they’re attractive to angry racists.
i honestly think there are people in the party who no longer want that. unfortunately their base hasn’t gotten the message.
The rotten egg analogy makes more sense. Each egg is completely sealed off from the others in the group. Since the shell is only permeable to gasses, one spoiled egg will not spoil the bunch.
except in this case it definitely has, because there have been a lot of so-called rotten eggs in that party.
Every time? Did he endorse another loser before?
The rigth winger en Canada, and in general has showed support to all the right wing parties candidates in Europe. And how could we forget that he visited the Pope, and he died next day!
The one in Canada was slated to win by every metric, but endorsement by American right wing politicians (in the midst of a trade war they started) caused a wild backlash. He even lost his hometown riding, which… Yikes.
When this is all over, the world will need to throw a thank-you party for the US electing Trump and waking up the voters of the world, shaking them out of their complacency to clean up their own houses.
I think this is kind of the way accelerationists actually think.
Tbh I thought your trump getting elected alone might be such a shock to your political establishments that your liberals would actually swing to the left for once.
I don’t know why I have any confidence in “my fellow countrymen.” I went to a public high school for 4 years, I “met the masses” there, and 90% of them were idiots, 60% of them were mean spirited, racist, bigoted idiots. And now they vote.
Before 2024, I honestly thought “there’s no way they’d ever put that clown back in.” And here we are, orange face paint and all.
Got his own Pope installed and alienated him too.
IIRC, the Trump/Vance effect also helped Australia elect a non right wing government.
no, the ALP support the genocide of gaza and also support banderite neo-nazis in ukraine, just like every major australian party
Was the pope a right winger too?
To be fair, if a left winger got endorsed by Vance, that would pretty much also kill their political career.
Vance’s status as poison is a universal thing for the entire political spectrum.
No, in fact, it was more left winger that they wanted to. This is only to mark that he is a gaffe. A big one!
AfD in Germany
They’re actually doing pretty well and it sickens me.
Sweet. We should invite him over more often.
Man its really hard to enjoy good news these days when you know the grim reality of your own country’s future… and what could have been.
Channel your inner pissed off hungarian and swarm that ballot box
it’s what it can be that motivates us
There aren’t any good outcomes for the US for the next few decades. Just bad and worse. I’ll be long dead before any real improvement happens.
I’m not American but I know how you feel. Even in Japan, my choices are less bad vs bad and the only thing I can do is keep voting for the former.
I try to get involved with community events to at least make my small circle of influence a happy place for everyone.
Hopefully they will be able to fund Ukraine now and kick Russia the fuck out of Europe.
Russia is in Europe.
Sure, but not in the progressive, sane or civilized part of Europe.
That part is shrinking by the day, or haven’t you noticed the shift in a lot of governments recently?
Yeah, they’re in Ukraine, Belarus and used to be in Hungary.
I see many “but he is also far right” comments. Peter Magyar might be on the right side of the scale, but he did not base his program on far right rhetoric at all. Its also impressive how many world class experts Magyar got for his party for major ministry roles. Many businessman and leaders from other sectors. Its a bit similar to the ruling change after the communism ended in Hungary, when instead of politicians, scientists, recognized intellectuals and experts got the ministry roles.
They seems to want to focus on repairing the damage, what Orbans gang caused, getting back all the EU funds and building up basic systems, like education and healthcare from scratch.
I’m part Hungarian and did not have a right to vote, but followed closely the whole thing and it might not look like it, but its a huuuge thing. All my Hungarian friends/colleagues are celebrating, after all they got rid of a cancerous tumor.
How did Hungarians get there first place? (to elect Orban)
i’m assuming he’ll just end up being a pretty average european moderate, i.e. absolutely miserable but at least capable of saying (and maybe even believing) the words “killing our own citizens is bad, actually”
Similar to how Zelenskyy’s politics are objectively not particularly astounding, but contrasted with the invasion by russia he looks like a holy saint
I’m not aware of the finer details of Magyars platform - What are his plans for all the Orban supporting public servants / judges etc.?
It sounds like root and branch reforms are incoming. It could be a great template for… certain other nations.Pretty much he promised to get rid of everyone who was an active member of the corrupt system. Also he plans to destroy all propaganda media, and wants to go after the oligarchs as well.
Its a lot and we will se how much he manages to fulfill of the promises, but if they manage to achieve only fractions of it, Hungary will be already a better place.
During his victory speech yesterday he called on them to resign immediately. He also said there would be no mercy only accountability.
I hope that Magyar follows post-far right Poland on dismantling the far right loyalist media and judges.
Many businessman and leaders from other sectors. Its a bit similar to the ruling change after the communism ended in Hungary
God, I hope it’s not similar
building up basic systems, like education and healthcare from scratch
That’s not what the right wing does, I’ll be pleasantly surprised if I get corrected by the policy of the new party, but do not expect public healthcare or education from a right wing party. The whole “we have no ideology, we just want experts” is very often an excuse for right wing “centrist” policy. Don’t get me wrong, hard to do worse than Orban.
i don’t see what that graph’s supposed to show. replacing the businessmen was in the 90s and here it’s a basic trend starting from the 80s, plus emigration restrictions immediately relaxing
i’m more expectant since national minimums was part of the platform
If your country prohibits its residents to go abroad for decades, then the borders open, and anyone can work or live abroad all of the studden I think its a normal thing to see. The worst part here is that the tendency continued even after Hungary joined the EU and Orban won his first elections.
If you had any idea what you’re talking about, you’d know that migrations are only part the picture, the rest being massive increases in mortality due to unemployment, drug abuse, violent death, suicide and lack of access to healthcare, and decreases in birthrates due to economic instability and lack of social support and destruction of the welfare state. The migrations happened precisely because of the economic and welfare destruction in the Eastern Block due to the arrival of capitalism, not due to some sort of “emigration deficit”. You’re just proving to us all that you haven’t done even the most cursory reading of the post-Soviet situation in the eastern block.
I’m happy to overcome my shortcomings and ignorance and learn from someone more knowledgeable. Do I understand correctly you put in this graph to predict a similar thing will happen? What are your other predictions? How is this relevant to this topic and why is important?
I’m not putting forward predictions with this graph, the graph just proves that “removing politicians to put in experts” is a slogan used by the right wing, the ones with the luxury of pretending that economics aren’t ideological.
My prediction is simply that electing a right wing party won’t solve corruption (one of the biggest perceived issues in Hungary after 16 years of continuous Orban rule), to degradation of working rights and welfare state, and will simply result in pursuing EU-dictated neoliberal policy in an era in which the EU has been stagnating for 20 years .
My alternative is not Orban either, I’m a firm leftist. I just with Eastern Europe hadn’t been dominated by anticommunism for the past 35 years and actually had a chance to grow some progressive movements, which is hard to do when you reject all the progress and advances put forward by former socialism.
I can get behind your view, I feel the same.
Just to put it in perspective how bad the situation was in Hungary from up close, most opposition parties (leftist or not) had literally zero chance replacing the Orban regime in the past 16 years.
They destroyed their opponents with a brutal propaganda machine and twisted voting system (winner compensation). I saw it first hand, I lived there a few years and the brainwashing is not just a buzzword, most boomers love Orban more than their own families. I wanted to buy a house and live there, but we left after a couple years after we saw what the state media did to people.
This was probably the last chance to get rid of them and it was an incredible feat to pull off. Magyar might not be the most ideal candidate, but if your house is on fire you cant pick and choose the firefighters.
I see many “but he is also far right” comments.
It’s also interesting to note that Orban didn’t used to be far right. He was sort of moderate and even on the scholarship program of George Soros back in the day.
The west supported Navalny, an ultra-nationalist literally shooting muslims in a video and calling them cockroaches, fully in favor of invading ukraine for creating a great empire.
What matters is anti-Putin in this case.
We support anyone willing to be our puppet, as shown recently when they whitewashed the headchopper Jolani.
Put him in a suit, cut his terrorist beard and now he gets the red carpet treatment.Who is “us”? Both, Washington DC and Moscow were heavily interfering in the election in favour of Orban. Are you truly pushing the Russian fairy tale of Magyar being a puppet of Brussels or Kiev or whose puppet are you even talking about?
Bloomcole consistently has the worst takes on matters. He’s an imperialist Russian tankie.
who is “we” ?
The ‘free and democratic’ west of course.
You are remaing as vague as before, name specific countries, institutions, politicians or other central figures. You don’t if course, because remaining vague us a pillar of disinformation.
a pillar of disinformation
I can smell your ‘Ruzzian disinfo Pootin troll’ already.
I’m not going to humor your fake curiosity. You know perfectly well what I’m talking about.So first you give a non-descriptive response and now you refuse to make your arguments in any way concrete at all. Your choice.
We still don’t know who or what this ominous dark force is (concretely by name) you were referring to the whole time. It can’t be the US, given how it did everything to prevent the fall of the Orban regime.
Most important: it’s even a 2/3 majority. Without that, Orban could have still blocked most of the changes. Now, he cannot.
I’m glad we can now poor money into the black hole of corruption that is ukraine unhindered.
Not that it already caused an awful crisis here in the EU.
Glad they’re working on stealing my pension now.I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll. I won’t interact with the troll.
yawn
The crisis for Europe is that Europe is under attack, you dumb fucking moron.
Really, could’ve fooled me. Pretty quiet here.
Are the Russians coming again? LOL
All I see is EU scumbag vassal politicians taking my money that ends up in corrupt scumbags pockets while their ‘refugees’ come leeching here of our state and now and then go back on holiday, like now for easter.
Such terrible war zone.
So go fuck yourself scumbag.
Go get yourself killed fighting for the nazis on the eastern front like your granddaddy probably did.
One fascist less. Congratulations to Hungary!
This does give me a small sliver of hope.
I hope they learned something
Been thinking a lot about the, “you can’t vote your way out if this,” doomer leftists today.
He was in power for 16 consecutive years before voting finally changed shit.
thing is, you’re comparing to america. America can’t vote their way out of their situation because the whole system is set up to prevent it, it would take decades of dedicated work to undo the conditioning of the populace and start making it even remotely feasible for an actual good candidate to be elected.
Now, that’s not to say that america can’t vote their way out of things on a local level, that’s actually one of the best bets available to them, but still even then Zohran’s victory in NYC (which by all accounts was kind of revolutionary) was only with him getting 50% of votes. The democrats did everything they could to keep a notorious sexual harasser in power instead.
Well, first of all, no I’m not just talking about America. There are tons of leftists on here who argue that voting is hopeless any time an authoritarian rises to power, and seem to believe the only solution is a violent revolution that they are not planning (not that I’m trying to bait anyone or fed-posting, but I doubt the people spending 16 hours a day debating Neo-Marxism versus Anarchist Communism are also forming a militia).
Second of all, you’re saying that the American system is set up to prevent voting out fascism, but what you’re describing is learned helplessness, not institutional restrictions. Learned helplessness is powerful, but I’m rapidly seeing it being unlearned since Trump took office. Republicans who’ve been ignoring economic issues for identity politics suddenly seem sick of hearing about wokeness. Liberal wine moms who held up, “But her emails,” signs in 2017 want Chuck Schumer’s blood. The other day I saw the fucking Mueller She Wrote account slamming Dick Durbin for saying, “reform,” ICE instead, “abolish.”
In terms of the institutions, there are a lot of measures against direct democracy that make reforms more difficult, but the structure of our elections have huge advantages. The constitution gives power of our federal elections squarely with the states, which is why Trump is having so much trouble rigging the elections. His current plan seems to be, “send ICE to intimidate voters,” and based on Minneapolis, that’s not an effective strategy.
Even the bigger obstacles are mostly imaginary. Congressional gridlock can easily be overcome by leadership willing to abolish the filibuster. Supreme Court members can be impeached, and the Court can be expanded by Congress. There are institutional, Democratic solutions to this, we just have to stop pretending they’re too difficult.
Orban absolutely rigged the system against voting out of their situation. And they’re not there yet, either. This vote was the first step, but they’ve overcome a huge hurdle.
you’re saying they voted out the guy who rigged votes for 16 years?
anti-electoralism is fully compatible with harm reduction, meaning it’s not that you shouldn’t vote but you shouldn’t rely on it, shouldn’t think it’s the only way forward, shouldn’t stop you from mutual aid and organizing instead of campaigning for some person
there are anti-electoralists plenty who don’t believe in harm reduction though, of course, and I agree with you on that
I agree that you shouldn’t rely on elections alone, and mutual aid/community organizing are a huge part of any resistance to authoritarianism. I’m mostly criticizing leftists who claim (or at least imply) that violence is the only possible resistance to a authoritarians.
I really believe that we are capable of turning back the tide of authoritarianism through the levers of democracy. When South Korean politicians scaled the fence around Parliament to vote down martial law, I fully expected the President and military to ignore them, but it worked for them, and it could work for us. If we continue to excise weak-willed centrists from the Democratic party and show Republicans that authoritarian rule will not be tolerated (as the people of Minnesota did), I really believe we can dismantle American fascism with our current institutions. (Dismantling the oligarchy and strengthening those institutions will be a longer, harder battle, but I think clearing out the current fascist regime is well within our immediate grasp.)
Soap box, ballot box, ammo box.
Agreed, but I see a lot of supposed leftists that seem like they just want to do the first one.
You know there isn’t an entrance exam right? There is plenty of people that want to charge the Bastille, just because they claim to be on the left doesn’t mean that they speak for the majority, or even the minority, it’s often just their view.
But it does become very irritating when even the left wing options seems to be quite right wing. I can totally see why people become disenfranchised. I don’t think there’s ever a point in not voting, it can never hurt, but it also might not help if that’s all your prepared to do.
Even the Pope says that it is not enough to simply say you have prayed, you also have to act.
Which is probably the first and last time I’ll ever agree with anything the Pope says.Yeah, don’t mistake my criticism of armchair leftists for all leftists. I certainly fall pretty far on the communist/socialist spectrum compared to what passes for the American left. But at this point, I have more respect for normie liberals who are just getting radicalized enough to take action, even if the action is just supporting a more progressive primary candidate, over online leftists who just mock them and argue theory.
another far right candidate won… coming from the same party originally
Hungary went from lime to lemon… don’t get me wrong, this is a tiny hint forward but by no means is Hungary “out”
Right wing? It is smack in the center.
The tisza party has published their policy plans. (full version pdf: https://magyartisza.hu/program)
Here are the left-wing ones:
Economic Justice and Redistribution
Reduce minimum wage tax from 15% to 9%. Lower income tax for workers earning below the median wage. Tax the super-rich with a 1% annual wealth tax on assets over 1 billion HUF. Cut VAT on firewood, healthy food, and prescription medicines.Expanded Social Safety Net
Double family allowances, maternity support, and childcare benefits. Guarantee a minimum pension of 120,000 HUF per month. Provide "Pensioner SZÉP Cards" with up to 200,000 HUF in annual support. Increase home care fees by 50% for family caregivers. Give a "Newborn Kit" worth 50,000 HUF to every baby.Labor and Public Sector Support
Increase pay by 25% for social sector and educational assistants. Strengthen union rights and rebuild national social dialogue. Enforce equal pay for equal work between men and women.Public Goods and Equality
Establish independent ministries for Healthcare and Education. Maintain tuition-free first university degrees. Build social rental housing and more student dormitories. End period poverty by providing free hygiene products in state schools. Fund Roma integration through school buses and new scholarships.State-Led Public Services
Nationalize debt enforcement and make it non-profit. Take over company liquidations to ensure a non-profit, transparent processright wing has a lot if colors. He’s far from a republican right wing extremist
True, and I don’t mean to imply that Hungary will magically be transformed into a thriving democracy as soon as Orbàn is out. It’s gonna take years to rebuild the judiciary alone, and we’ll see how committed Maygar is to restoring inconvenient aspects of democracy like press freedom and fair elections. Still, Hungary took the first step towards reestablishing democracy by voting, and I’m getting tired of hearing how voting doesn’t work from people who’s only political activities are sharing the, “You’re Finished,” meme and telling people to read theory.
I agree with you even if I have been a doom and gloom person as of late.
I agree that voting is important even if rigged… writing to your representatives is important even if they wipe their asses with your letters… we all must continue to enact the “normal” strategies while also considering extraordinary ones!
Agreed. Until there is an open Civil War, voting will be important, as well as protests and general strikes.
He’s mostly been described as centre right, but we’ll see. If he’s not beholden to Russia and not massively corrupt, then that’s a huge step. If they then undo the damage done by Orbán to the constitution and institutions of Hungary, then there will be a way forward.
Explain how to vote out the elements that brought Orban to power. You can’t. They’ll continue to exist under the new regime and do whatever they can to undermine. Also, Musk can meddle whenever he feels it is beneficial to him. Can’t vote him out either.
So “voting is irrelevant”, the (less than) two-day-old account implies
Seriously, can we have a “cool-down” period, between registering an account and posting a comment? It’s not a perfect solution, but fuck… it might make shit like this less persistent. One should at least have to work/lurk for it; my fucking god these divisive comments from brand new accounts are pathetic
It might work to some extent on reddit, but with thousands of instances here - I think it’s a bit of a moot point.
Thanks for illustrating my point! 🤡
That statement doesn’t really work here… fucking bots
