Someone in the meeting then reportedly mentioned the Avignon Papacy to Pierre. This refers to a 14th century attack on the Vatican by the French king, in which Pope Boniface VIII was murdered by assassins and the Vatican was forced to relocate to Avignon where it could be controlled by the French crown for the next 67 years.
Its clear they meant to make a very, very stupid threat, but im also sure they did it in the laziest, shittiest way possible.
The stupidity comes from trying to threaten a religious figurehead of a church of 1 billion people with assasination in our media enstrangled world when the president can’t even handle the bad polling from gas prices going up.
I have no doubt some of his inner circle would gladly murder the pope to make a point, but their evil is also grossly incompotent.
The stupidity comes from trying to threaten a religious figurehead of a church of 1 billion people with assassination in our media enstrangled world when the president can’t even handle the bad polling from gas prices going up.
I have no doubt some of his inner circle would gladly murder the pope to make a point, but their evil is also grossly incompetent.
This, exactly. I’m not even a believer, but I know the history very well, and I’d readily bet on a group that has lasted in its current form for roughly a thousand years (see note below) and has something like 1.3 billion adherents, over a diaper-wearing kiddie-raping bully that hasn’t even made 80 and is firing his own cabinet members during the most stupid war he could ever have started while he systematically works to destroy his own country. They believe in an unconquerable god and heavenly king; Trump believes he is god and wants to be a king. In a war of ideas with a roomful of religious historians (aka Jesuits) Trump’s bullies are not winning jack shit.
Whoever mentioned Avignon meant it as a threat, but for anyone who knows history – and these cardinals certainly do – in 2000 years of Christianity, for the Catholics Avignon was a blip in time that the Church overcame and was made stronger by. Knowing some historically-minded Catholics (and Eastern Orthodox, too!) and how into the history they really, really are, the mention of Avignon is not nearly as much of a threat to the Pope as it is a reminder of the supremacy of the church throughout the ages, and how challengers come and go but the Church remains.
The cardinals really do think like this; this is not an exaggeration. That DoD fool only thought he was lecturing the cardinal, lol. I’ve been personally witness to sincere, hours-long religious arguments over historical concepts like apostolic succession (though not with cardinals, lol), and compared to that Avignon wasn’t even a hiccup. I’d put money on all those cardinals catching each other’s eyes and smirking when the Americans weren’t looking, because every cardinal in that room was thinking about papal history in the long term: in that context, the DoD rep was simply making an ass of himself.
Let’s see Polymarket take this one up. Pope v. Trump: who wins? It’s a no-brainer. I’ll take the guy in the white dress.
Note: I’m going with the Great Schism of 1054; others might calculate it differently
The US reps probably went into the meeting with chatgpt open and just kept typing “I want the pope to stop being mean to israel, what do I say now?” to the prompt. I doubt they knew what they were saying.
I think the defense of the Vatican is the responsibility of Italy. They don’t play games with their sovereignty. Also, the Swiss Guard is far from being a cerimonial guard. They are on the level of special elite forces and they will kick some serious ass or die trying.
An attack on Italian troops would be an attack all of the EU. Even the UK would have something to say. You worried about the strait of Hormuz? Try Gibraltar…
An attack on the Vatican will also be an attack on all the Catholic world. The US would lose, no chance.
The CIA kidnapped Italian I don’t know if they were citizens but people legally allowed to be in Italy off the streets and flew them to Guantanamo and tortured them forever without telling italy, without permission and despite Italy trying to do do stuff about it nothing came of it. We also have military bases in Italy still last I heard.
It’s possible italian intelligence was aware, their civilian leadership likely wasn’t, and would be a huge scandal if it was. Their judicial system definitely wasn’t aware let alone agreed, they have warrants out for some of the CIA involved.
Maybe we should start a betting pool, my money is on kidnapping the ICC officials, but I’m also leaning towards taking the Nobel committee hostage at some point to make them sign over the Peace Prize.
at this point a “military operation” into Vatican City of all places by the US wouldn’t surprise me.
FTA
Holy shit did someone in the administration actually correctly use a historical reference?
Im sure they just asked grok about pope murders so they could make a absolutely ludicrious threat.
The longer we keep pretending they’re idiots who don’t know what they’re talking about the longer we’ll be in this.
The ones in front might be drooling simpletons but the ones in the back have done their homework and know exactly the threat they’re making.
Its clear they meant to make a very, very stupid threat, but im also sure they did it in the laziest, shittiest way possible.
The stupidity comes from trying to threaten a religious figurehead of a church of 1 billion people with assasination in our media enstrangled world when the president can’t even handle the bad polling from gas prices going up.
I have no doubt some of his inner circle would gladly murder the pope to make a point, but their evil is also grossly incompotent.
This, exactly. I’m not even a believer, but I know the history very well, and I’d readily bet on a group that has lasted in its current form for roughly a thousand years (see note below) and has something like 1.3 billion adherents, over a diaper-wearing kiddie-raping bully that hasn’t even made 80 and is firing his own cabinet members during the most stupid war he could ever have started while he systematically works to destroy his own country. They believe in an unconquerable god and heavenly king; Trump believes he is god and wants to be a king. In a war of ideas with a roomful of religious historians (aka Jesuits) Trump’s bullies are not winning jack shit.
Whoever mentioned Avignon meant it as a threat, but for anyone who knows history – and these cardinals certainly do – in 2000 years of Christianity, for the Catholics Avignon was a blip in time that the Church overcame and was made stronger by. Knowing some historically-minded Catholics (and Eastern Orthodox, too!) and how into the history they really, really are, the mention of Avignon is not nearly as much of a threat to the Pope as it is a reminder of the supremacy of the church throughout the ages, and how challengers come and go but the Church remains.
The cardinals really do think like this; this is not an exaggeration. That DoD fool only thought he was lecturing the cardinal, lol. I’ve been personally witness to sincere, hours-long religious arguments over historical concepts like apostolic succession (though not with cardinals, lol), and compared to that Avignon wasn’t even a hiccup. I’d put money on all those cardinals catching each other’s eyes and smirking when the Americans weren’t looking, because every cardinal in that room was thinking about papal history in the long term: in that context, the DoD rep was simply making an ass of himself.
Let’s see Polymarket take this one up. Pope v. Trump: who wins? It’s a no-brainer. I’ll take the guy in the white dress.
Note: I’m going with the Great Schism of 1054; others might calculate it differently
The US reps probably went into the meeting with chatgpt open and just kept typing “I want the pope to stop being mean to israel, what do I say now?” to the prompt. I doubt they knew what they were saying.
I think the defense of the Vatican is the responsibility of Italy. They don’t play games with their sovereignty. Also, the Swiss Guard is far from being a cerimonial guard. They are on the level of special elite forces and they will kick some serious ass or die trying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_Sigonella?wprov=sfla1
An attack on Italian troops would be an attack all of the EU. Even the UK would have something to say. You worried about the strait of Hormuz? Try Gibraltar…
An attack on the Vatican will also be an attack on all the Catholic world. The US would lose, no chance.
The CIA kidnapped Italian I don’t know if they were citizens but people legally allowed to be in Italy off the streets and flew them to Guantanamo and tortured them forever without telling italy, without permission and despite Italy trying to do do stuff about it nothing came of it. We also have military bases in Italy still last I heard.
Do you think if the Italian government was involved in that they would come out and say it?
These are need to know things and the public doesn’t need to know …
It’s possible italian intelligence was aware, their civilian leadership likely wasn’t, and would be a huge scandal if it was. Their judicial system definitely wasn’t aware let alone agreed, they have warrants out for some of the CIA involved.
Maybe we haven’t been losing enough. Our losers might want to lose more bigly.
We’re getting away from “speak softly and carry a big stick.” We’re more interested now in yelling loudly while shooting ourselves in the foot.
Hopefully things are better in a year.
Maybe the military is setting up plans to go in a and snatch the Pope like they snatched the president in Venezuela.
Maybe we should start a betting pool, my money is on kidnapping the ICC officials, but I’m also leaning towards taking the Nobel committee hostage at some point to make them sign over the Peace Prize.
That would “prove” trump’s god is better than their god.
Just like the Spaniards did in Mexico.
I just assume they want first hand conversations about covering up pedophilia.
Trading trade secrets?