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Twisted Sisters Madness & Manslaughter Season 1 Episode 2
#Twisted Sisters Madness & Manslaughter
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#Twisted Sisters Madness & Manslaughter
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00:003-3, go ahead.
00:07They are now all on a hard shoulder on the northbound, but the collision itself had took place in lane 3 at the southbound.
00:15So they were trying to get back across the carriageway and they've been struck.
00:21I'm not a doctor, she has been knocked down by...
00:22Is she the one that speaks English, or the other one?
00:24Yes. The other one, she's gonna run...
00:26Oh no! Shit!
00:30Oh, jeez!
00:32Swedish twins Sabina and Ursula Eriksson were causing mayhem on the motorway.
00:37Are you gonna see all my organs, you pet?
00:40They were on some kind of suicidal mission.
00:45Help! Help!
00:48At this point, nobody could have predicted the events that were gonna unfold.
00:52What started as a horrific incident then led to the brutal stabbing of an innocent man.
01:00Why would she stab him? All I know is he was trying to help her.
01:06They said she was suffering from folio deur, which I've never heard of.
01:13Folio deur is a very rare psychiatric condition.
01:18A French term meaning the madness of two. It's almost as if you would consider it being contagious.
01:27How ridiculous. How can someone catch a mental illness of somebody?
01:31On social media, you have people posting their own theories.
01:38And various colourful opinions about what happened took on a life of their own.
01:44I'll tell you what I thought. I thought it was drugs.
01:46Basically a theory that they were lab rats.
01:48One of the officers described her as having inhuman strength.
01:51Senior officers to the scene, we've got two possible fatals.
01:54After the incident on the M6, where they were running into oncoming traffic and causing mayhem on the motorway.
02:21Help me!
02:23It's arresting.
02:24We're keeping everything safe for you, sir.
02:27Sabina Erickson was convicted and sentenced to one day in custody, which she'd already served.
02:35So she was released from the magistrate's court and sent on her way.
02:43After Sabina was released from the courthouse, she was seen wandering the streets of Fenton.
02:53Sabina Erickson, who had been drinking at the Royal Oak pub.
02:57It was time to go home.
02:58I started walking up Christchurch Street and as we were walking up there was a woman.
03:04She stuck out like a sore thumb in the middle of the street, wearing this big bubble jacket with all the stuff in a plastic bag.
03:12She seemed a little distressed.
03:26Lost, certainly not very focused.
03:30We started a conversation and my sister was in hospital and she was trying to find her and she said I need to find her bed and breakfast.
03:44And Glenn said, there's nothing around here for you to stay at.
03:51Come back to mine.
03:51We'll have a bite to eat and then try to locate your sister or find you somewhere to stay.
03:57I can see how somebody with an outside lens looking in on this might think, what on earth would they do that for?
04:11But Stoke-on-Trent's not a big city. It is a place of working class people, largely.
04:19People who take pride in being friendly and approachable and welcoming to everyone.
04:26Glenn, I suppose, was a rebel of the family, but in a nice way.
04:38We grew up in the Air Force as a group of five boys, brothers. We were very close-knit.
04:46Glenn followed in my father's footsteps. He joined the Air Force.
04:50He was a medic when he left and went to join Mitchell in making tyres in Stoke-on-Trent.
05:02When he settled in Stoke, it wasn't far from where I live.
05:05He was coming round all the time. He helped out with my mum.
05:10Yusuf fascinated my mother by telling her stories, you know, history stories and stuff.
05:14She could sit there all day listening. Spent a lot of time together.
05:17We'd come up the house, we'd have meals. He loved cooking curry. So, really hot.
05:26We used to meet up and take the dogs out. He had a real soft spot.
05:32He would do anything for you. If he had 10 pence and it was his last, he'd give it to you.
05:38It was really good that way. And if he saw anybody who needed help, he would offer help.
05:48Glenn offered Sabina a place to stay for the night, fed her, made sure she was comfortable
05:55and looked after her. But when they were in the house together, her behaviour was a little alarming.
06:05She seemed quite open and warm. But then, in the quiet moments, she was getting quite paranoid,
06:16then pulling the curtains to one side. I'm looking out and then quickly just snatching them back.
06:24I responded a little bit unsettled by this. I'm looking at Glenn for reassurance. And he's like,
06:30it's all right, it's all right.
06:31I'm looking at the camera.
06:32I'm looking at the camera.
06:33Sabina, she'd had a pretty traumatic few days. She'd been injured on a motorway. She'd spent time in a
06:40police cell. She'd seen her sister cast off in an air ambulance. And she was in a strange country.
06:48These are sorts of events which can only feed into somebody's existing paranoia. If that paranoia is
06:57already there.
06:57There was this growing fear inside of me thinking, who is this woman? She's hiding from someone.
07:04She gets out her cigarettes and she offers them round to myself and Glenn. We take one and just as we're
07:12about to light up, she just snatches them quite furiously and says, they might be poisoned. You can't
07:20have them. I was taken by by that. Like, what? Your cigarettes are poisoned? And this was a pack of
07:27cigarettes that she'd been smoking from all night. This is beyond weird now. Something's not right
07:34about this woman. Glenn was, he was quite relaxed and comfortable with it. I think he was just
07:40dismissing it off as quirky. I personally just wanted to get out of that situation
07:47as quickly and as calmly as possible.
07:52Peter was clearly suspicious of Sabina's behaviour and left the house. But Glenn was helping her.
08:01And Sabina stayed the night.
08:12In 2008, I was working at the Royal Infirmary in Stoke in the A&E department as a nursing assistant,
08:20which is why Glenn rang me and told me that he's got this Swedish woman
08:25at his and told me, you know, she's got nowhere to go, so I'd better stay here.
08:32And she's got a sister who's in the hospital, her in a Peter Carson.
08:37When I rang Glenn back, I said, I've found out that she's been admitted, been operated on,
08:45and that's all they can tell me. And that's what I told Glenn. And I said, if you want to lift up there,
08:54I'll give you a lift up there.
08:57When he come back and he says, no, she doesn't want to go. I said, oh, okay.
09:01Well, if you change your mind, let me know, but I'll give you a lift up. And that was that.
09:13If I'd have known the story about the M6, I could have warned Glenn that what she's told you isn't what happened.
09:20Oh, Jesus. Yeah, I could have warned him. Time goes through straight.
09:28What's going to happen to you? She's very dangerous. Careful.
09:45After Sabina stayed the night in Glenn's home,
09:51People in the local area saw Sabina and saw Glenn in the house or through the window.
09:58And at one point, Glenn gave one of them a thumbs up.
10:04Sabina asked Glenn for a cup of tea. He was quite sure because he didn't have any tea to give her.
10:10So he went to a neighbour to see if he could borrow a tea bag.
10:13I think I went to fast for some tea bags. And I said to him, whenever he's washing the van, I'll get you some.
10:23Glenn was just trying to make a cup of tea for Sabina.
10:26That's when everything kicked off. Neither Glenn or Sabina ever got to drink their cups of tea.
10:35It turns out that Glenn had gone inside the house after speaking with his neighbour.
10:43And using his kitchen knife, Sabina attacked Glenn, stabbed him three times in the chest.
10:51And one time in the throat, she stabbed me, she stabbed me.
11:00And they said, yeah, look after me, dog. I said, I'm going to just come in now.
11:04And I said, yeah, I'll look after you, dog, for you.
11:09Sabina fled the scene at the house and was acting in a very erratic manner.
11:17She had somehow got hold of a hammer. This good Samaritan stopped and tried to help her.
11:24Well, as we were pulling up to the exit onto the roundabout, I just glanced and saw a woman in the corner of my eye.
11:31I looked again and saw her smashing herself on the head with a hammer.
11:37I just felt a sickening feeling in my stomach.
11:40And I do remember seeing lots of blood on her head and it was proper tunnel vision.
11:46And I was just completely, like, zoned in on the hammer.
11:49Just put my hands straight on the hammer and lowered it.
11:52She hit me on the back of the head with something.
11:56The last thing I saw was her run across the roundabout, the road.
12:01Followed by two paramedics.
12:04The paramedics from Staffordshire Ambulance Service had been called to a stabbing incident.
12:09And the crew, as they were going en route, came across an individual who had been hitting her head with a hammer.
12:16Quite concerned about her safety, the ambulance stopped to try and help.
12:21The paramedics saw Sabina as she then made her way to a high row bridge nearby.
12:31She's got nowhere to go.
12:33So instead of handing herself in, Sabina jumps from the bridge onto the road.
12:39The paramedics who were going to the stabbing are now dealing with the scene on the A50.
12:50And when I approached the incident, I was quite surprised it was actually the same lady that we'd
12:56attended to on the motorway.
13:08She jumped a distance from approximately 30 foot onto a hard road surface.
13:13She appeared to have sustained a head injury and also an injury to a leg.
13:19When I approached her, she was actually conscious, but she was quite aggressive, abusive, shouting and
13:25screaming.
13:25Very similar to her presentation when I'd come across her on the motorway.
13:32I did an initial assessment of Sabina, determined there was no obvious life-threatening injuries.
13:38The paramedic crew that were on scene were obviously managing her.
13:42And then I was aware of a stabbing incident in the locality.
13:46So I left the scene.
13:55As I approached the scene, there were a number of police officers there.
14:00One of the police officers waved me down and advised me to stop.
14:05And I was basically told that life was extinct.
14:09This was now a crime scene.
14:16I was working at the daily newspaper in Stoke at that time, the Sentinel.
14:21And I found out there'd been a stabbing in Duke Street.
14:30So I traveled to the scene to speak to some neighbors and get some more information about what happened.
14:39They told me Glenn came out of the house severely injured.
14:44He had been stabbed.
14:45He told his neighbor he had been stabbed.
14:48She stabbed me.
14:49She stabbed me.
14:51And then the other day I went, that was it.
14:55I've seen nobody die before.
15:01It was a very brutal stabbing of an innocent man in his home.
15:05The day after I'd spoken to Glenn, I went up to the corner shop to get a packet of cigarettes.
15:20On the counter was the Sentinel newspaper.
15:23And I looked and I thought, I recognize that picture.
15:30That's Glenn's house.
15:31And it was cordoned off.
15:33And I thought, what's going on here?
15:35And I don't think I even bothered reading it.
15:38So I went back to my car, drove down there, parked up.
15:44And the policeman says, oh, you can't park there.
15:48You'll have to move that car.
15:49I said, well, I said, well, your brother lives here.
15:54All right.
15:56Yeah.
15:57Can you just stay here?
15:58I'll get someone to come and talk to you.
16:00I waited and waited.
16:01No one was coming.
16:04And eventually they came up to the house.
16:08I had to inform the rest of the family.
16:11Yeah.
16:12It's hard to say to somebody, you know, your brother's dead.
16:15It still gets to be there.
16:28Still find it hard to talk about.
16:29After I finished work, I was asked by my wife, in an urgent way, to phone Paul, my brother.
16:50He just told me that Glen had died.
17:01And then, obviously, it opens up a whole barrage of questions.
17:06Trying to piece the whole thing together in your mind is pretty difficult.
17:12But my whole focus was being concerned with my mother.
17:17I couldn't tell her I took it.
17:18My neighbor to tell her.
17:20I couldn't get the words out.
17:21She couldn't take it in.
17:24You know, she couldn't believe it.
17:26My mom, she just kept saying, what?
17:30Glen's dead?
17:32And I thought, sorry, I'm getting upset now.
17:38Still got to get over that they couldn't bother to inform us.
17:44So I thought the first thing the police did in a thing like that is inform the family.
17:48And to read it in the papers wasn't very nice at all.
17:56In the immediate aftermath of the stabbing, it was a very confusing picture.
18:03We were trying to piece together.
18:08It's a shocking moment when you realize the relationship between the M6 and the stabbing and the A50.
18:14What's going to happen to you?
18:15What's going to happen to you?
18:16Do you?
18:16Fuck it up!
18:18Calm down, calm down, calm down, calm down.
18:21After she jumped onto the A50, she was transported to the emergency department at Royal Stoke University Hospital.
18:28With a head injury and quite significant leg injuries, she appeared to have sustained an ankle fracture.
18:35While Sabine Erickson was in hospital, she was arrested for the murder of Glen Hollinshead.
18:46In 2008, I was instructed by the Staffordshire branch of the Crown Prosecution Service to prosecute Sabine Erickson for the murder of Glen Hollinshead.
19:10After Sabine Erickson jumped off the bridge, she remained in hospital until the 11th of September of 2008,
19:24receiving treatment for her serious leg injuries and a wound to the abdomen.
19:31And the doctor who examined her formed the view that the wound had been caused by a sharp object such as a knife.
19:47So this raised the possibility that Sabine Erickson had been stabbed.
19:51The question then was, by whom?
19:56Was it by Glen Hollinshead?
20:01Glen, Glen?
20:03Glen tended to be a little bit rebellious.
20:07I would say he did not like authority and he was always looking for direction.
20:13He tended not to have a clear purpose in life.
20:17He was focused on drinking.
20:19He used to drink a lot.
20:20He always has.
20:23At one point, he did lose his way, so I don't know what it was, whether he was smoking.
20:31You know, he was asking for more money and stuff like that.
20:36And I got to the point where I said, I can't do this anymore.
20:39End off, you know.
20:41And then he went on a methadone program.
20:46I used to say to Glenn, be careful who you play with,
20:51because he had some characters in his life that I wouldn't have entertained.
20:56But that was his nature.
21:01It was irrefutable that Sabina Erickson's hand had held the knife
21:13with which Glenn Hollingshead had been stabbed.
21:16But did she act in self-defense?
21:20What was her state of mind at the time that the stabbing took place?
21:26The defense indicated that they would instruct a psychiatrist to examine Sabina.
21:38They said she was suffering from polioderm.
21:41And apparently it's a condition where you can catch a mental illness of somebody.
21:46You know, how can someone catch a mental illness?
21:50and she went to enemy laten Once experiencing some pain and death.
22:02In the days and weeks leading up to the trial, no, I looked through all the evidence.
22:07And one of the extraordinary features of the case was in relation to the incident on the M6.
22:19Here was an example of quite extraordinarily bizarre behavior by Sabina and Ursula Eriksson.
22:30Oh, I recognize you. I know you're not real.
22:32Stay still for me. Stay still because you're hurt.
22:34Come on, come on.
22:35Come on, come on, come on.
22:42Understandably, there were suspicions that the twins had been high on drugs or under the influence of something.
22:51Yeah, of course, yeah.
22:54Jesus Christ.
22:55I watched her go under.
22:57Oh, dear.
22:57The Arctic?
22:58Yeah, she ran off from us.
23:01They're both high.
23:04Yeah, very.
23:04I mean, the other ones just fought us.
23:09Both Sabina and Ursula provided blood samples.
23:14And in both their cases, the samples were negative for the presence of drugs, both lawful and unlawful,
23:23and for alcohol.
23:25There's going to be a big investigation about this.
23:28Where are you from?
23:29Are they Irish?
23:31Swedish.
23:32Swedish.
23:33Two, five, one, over six, that's the camera.
23:35Stop. Stop it.
23:36Fucking asshole.
23:37Calm down.
23:38Fucking bitch, you are.
23:40Yeah.
23:40I'm going to make sure I don't want to work.
23:43Fuck you, guys.
23:44Fuck you.
23:44Fuck you.
23:45Yeah.
23:46Fuck you.
23:47Three days later, Sabina jumped from the parapet of the A50.
23:56Again, she was negative for drugs and alcohol.
24:03Her behavior was bizarre.
24:05So it was inevitable Sabina Erickson's mental state at the time of the killing might well
24:15be an issue in the case.
24:18In 2009, I was instructed as a consultant psychiatrist to prepare a forensic psychiatric report in the case
24:47of Sabina Erickson.
24:50Do you suffer any mental health problems or from depression?
24:54No, sir, I don't.
24:55Have you ever tried to harm yourself?
24:57No, sir, not every day.
24:59Not a good idea, was it?
25:01No to answer.
25:03The defense expert felt Sabina was in fact suffering from a serious mental health issue
25:11and that Sabina Erickson's behavior was due to the presence and the influence of her sister.
25:21And their diagnosis was folia due, a French term meaning the madness of two.
25:33Folia due is a very rare psychiatric condition.
25:37Typically, it happens when the two people involved spend quite a possible time together
25:43and are highly isolated.
25:44One person would have what we call the primary diagnosis of a true mental illness
25:53and then because of their intimacy, they could convince that other person to think
25:59just as they were thinking.
26:01It's almost as if you would consider it being contagious.
26:05In the case of these sisters, there was an indication that Ursula was the primary patient.
26:16Folia due seemed to be a very convenient diagnosis of what was going on between Sabina and the sister.
26:24No, I don't believe there's any woo-woo type mysticism where one girl is transferring her thoughts
26:33to another girl, even though twins are very close.
26:36Just please check out the hall of these police with the last sister.
26:39I'll ask the subject.
26:40Okay, no problem.
26:41All right.
26:45There's now quite a lot of evidence which shows that folia due does happen because it's been recorded.
26:53It's possible for two people to share the same delusion, but it's extremely rare.
26:58And that's what makes this case very interesting.
27:03There were two diagnoses, one by each of the medical experts.
27:09I wanted to meet with Ms. Erickson.
27:13I'm curious to know what was happening in the weeks, days, hours, and even in the minutes leading up to the event.
27:22Because prior to meeting with her sister, there was no evidence of any previous issue with mental health.
27:33Conversations with people who grew up with the twins in Sweden have revealed what their childhoods were like.
27:55The twins grew up with an older brother and sister.
27:57Their father's disabled with only one arm and had problems with alcohol.
28:07Their mother was believed to have challenges of her own.
28:10The children were generally left to their own devices.
28:18School friends remember Ursula having a cleft palate that disfigured and scarred her entire face from the forehead down.
28:25And was bullied for her disfigurement.
28:27The twins had an extremely close relationship with each other, but didn't spend time with other friends.
28:35Sabina and Ursula decided they would have a better life if they left Sweden.
28:38There are so many unanswered questions around this case.
28:49When they arrived in Liverpool, they spoke to police to raise some concerns about the safety of Sabina's sons.
28:57Police, we understand at that stage, actually made contact with her partner back in Cork and discovered that he was concerned for Sabina's whereabouts, for her safety.
29:11And there was nothing to cause alarm with their two sons.
29:16But why did they travel to Liverpool?
29:18Why were they so worried about Sabina's children's safety back in Ireland?
29:28When they stopped at Cale's services, why would they not put their bags back in the hold of the coach?
29:40Why were they both trying to run in front of traffic on the M6?
29:45Yeah, we need...
29:45Mike Alpha, we need the lot here now.
29:48Yes, I want you.
29:49Stay there.
29:49Shh, it's okay.
29:51Yeah, it's fine, sir.
29:52Sit your breathing.
29:53It's okay.
29:53I don't need some sort of...
29:54What was causing this extreme behaviour?
29:59And indeed, the day after, the questions continued.
30:05It's inevitable when people are interested in something, their minds try and piece together the confusion of it all.
30:16Today's podcast, we are going to delve deep into the story and the crimes of sisters Ursula and Sabina Eriksson.
30:25Oh my God, this case, it's giving me a headache.
30:28I think the case of Sabina and Ursula Eriksson has captured people's imagination in part because of the lack of official information that's available to the public.
30:36And where information is missing, conspiracy theorists will rush in.
30:40Once the news coverage of this story caught the interest of social media, it just snowballed.
30:47And various colourful opinions about what happened took on a life of their own.
30:53So let's quickly talk about some theories, shall we?
30:55Tell you what I thought.
30:56I thought it was drugs.
30:57Conspiracy theories suggest Sabina and Ursula had either taken or been given PCP.
31:02It is an illegal drug that can cause hallucinations, paranoia and the belief that one has superhuman strength.
31:09Often PCP is laced in cigarettes.
31:11So this theory definitely seemed plausible because it could explain why Sabina was concerned about Glenn and Peter smoking her cigarettes.
31:19However, PCP is one of the drugs the police test for.
31:23So this isn't something that would have been missed during their examination.
31:28For the ISU's guys, they're on a coach.
31:30Whether they've just come in, we don't know.
31:32But they're very protective of the bags.
31:33They wouldn't let the coach drive, put them down below.
31:36And he says, with the way they're acting, could they be mewling?
31:39There was also a theory that the twins were drug smugglers.
31:42The reason for this theory is just the way that they were kind of acting with their bags on the coach.
31:47How they were like clutching them and just acting really weird.
31:50And the twins had multiple mobile phones with them that could support the fact that they were drug smugglers.
31:56There were no drugs found in their system.
31:59And no drugs or drug paraphernalia found in their bags.
32:03There are theories out there.
32:06But we can't prove any of this.
32:09It is purely speculation.
32:12What on earth happened in Glenn Holland's head's house?
32:17I made an appointment to meet with Ms. Erickson.
32:31I felt that I did not have enough information to do a comprehensive diagnosis.
32:40Prior to what had happened to Mr. Holling's head, it seemed that she was having persecutory delusions.
32:54Hearing voices, thoughts that she was in danger.
32:59And this was made clear to her by Ursula.
33:03And that is when she was convinced that they needed to seek refuge.
33:14Apparently they were walking down Central Asia kissing.
33:19They considered escaping together one way or the other like a pact.
33:26What was said to me by Ms. Erickson was that they were both convinced that they had to act in this way.
33:37And that by dying together, that would be one way of escaping whatever perceived danger that they had imagined.
33:47After the incident, it appeared that Sabina continued suffering from a paranoid delusion, thinking that someone is out to harm her.
34:10When Mr. Holling's head went out to speak to his neighbor, it is possible that she might have felt they were plotting in some way.
34:26If she was having persecutory delusions, it would give her a sense of fear.
34:32A feeling that she needed to escape to protect herself and also to protect her sister.
34:44I was able to understand more about what her life was like.
34:51Sabina and her sister Ursula, they led a fairly frugal existence in Sweden.
34:59And there was some insinuation of difficulties within the household, although there was no overt sign of mental health difficulties.
35:18Sabina and Ursula both had a shared traumatic childhood.
35:22We know now that people who've had some type of adverse experience, particularly some kind of trauma in their childhood, are much more likely than other people to develop a form of severe mental illness, some form of psychosis or another.
35:38Sabina and Ursula, there were two diagnoses.
35:45The defense believed that it was Polyaudure.
35:49But in my opinion, she was suffering from acute polymorphic psychotic disorder,
35:56psychotic disorder where the person's mind simply takes leave of reality. It could have lasted
36:08days and the presence and influence of her sister was more the final straw that caused her to have
36:19a psychotic break. In the end it did not matter who made what diagnosis. The important thing was whether
36:30we felt that she was operating under the influence of a mental disorder at the time of the incident.
36:38The conclusions of both experts were the same. Dr. McDaniel's report was only available at lunchtime
36:55on the day that the trial was due to commence. We discovered that she too had come to the conclusion
37:05that Savina's responsibility was substantially diminished by her mental state at the time of
37:12the killing. We would accept the plea only if any suggestion of self-defence was abandoned.
37:24Right, stay with me. I can't see any reason why Glen would stab her. I don't think you're going to
37:32make someone a cup of tea and then just turn around and stab them. If Glen had seen Sabina trying to
37:38harm herself in any way, he would have tried to prevent it. It's how he is. He wouldn't just stand
37:45there and watch. Sabina, for whatever reason, for whatever reason, was quite happy to place herself
37:55at serious risk of harm. And when anybody tried to stop her, she was prepared to resist violently.
38:02It seemed to me that the overwhelmingly probable inference was that Sabina was in the process of
38:17using the knife to injure herself when Glen Hollingshead came back into his house,
38:24that he tried to stop her and that she took possession of the knife and stabbed him.
38:34The defence considered their position overnight.
38:38There were various court hearings. Most of them seemed to be adjourned.
38:56We'll see. It's been a long time coming, but we'll see what happens.
39:00And then finally, there was the trial. We were there as brothers, waiting to see what was going to happen.
39:07Sabina's change of plea made headlines, and I remember it being reported prominently on BBC News.
39:16Tonight, a Swedish woman who ran into the path of oncoming traffic on the M6 motorway,
39:21and later killed a man, has pleaded guilty to manslaughter.
39:24The judge's sentence had been at her five years, minus the time she had served on remand.
39:41I was disappointed with the sentence that was passed down,
39:44but I don't think it would bring Glen back, no matter how long she got in prison.
39:48In my eyes, it should have been preventable. After what she'd gone through on the M6,
40:09being knocked unconscious, then waking up and fighting with police people,
40:17trying to run into other traffic on the other side of the M6. Now, to me, that is not normal behaviour.
40:23And there was a mention of 136, under the Mental Health Act.
40:31How should she be arrested? Well, 136 if she is.
40:34Well, she needs to be, but if nothing else, for going on the carriageway and for her own safety.
40:39One of the policemen that was there said that she should be sectioned.
40:45They could have kept her under observation. They could have brought in psychologists, psychiatrists.
40:51I don't hold Sabina responsible, although she physically was responsible for my brother's death.
40:57I think that the police are far more culpable. Sabina, I don't have any malice against.
41:04In the case of Miss Erickson, she showed intermittent signs of psychosis.
41:17Sabina, come and sit in the car.
41:20There were times when she acted bizarrely, and there were times when she acted normally.
41:25What job are you doing? Oh, I just found a crappy job.
41:30But because of the fluctuating nature of the illness, then things sort of slipped through the net.
41:45The police had no way of telling exactly what was going to happen next.
41:50I think in the moment they probably thought they were doing the right thing by Sabina.
41:56But there are lessons to be learned from this.
42:13I think the world has moved on in terms of our understanding of mental health conditions
42:35and our awareness of it.
42:43We need to foster a better understanding of what these disorders are.
42:49And the fact that there's not two species of people, the sane and the insane,
42:55but that we're all to some extent on that spectrum.
42:57And the earlier we can intervene, the sooner we can get to people who are developing psychotic symptoms,
43:06then the more likely we are to be able to prevent the tragic deaths of people like Glenn Hollinshead.
43:16My mother was never the same.
43:18Glenn, I think, was the apple of her eye.
43:21It broke her heart, and she ended up falling apart.
43:25I still picture him laughing and joking with me.
43:32Yeah, I miss him.
43:34Oh, God, do I ever. I miss him.
43:55Oh, God, do I ever. I miss him.
44:04Oh, God, do I have.
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