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00:00Aaron Glenn, at the end of the day, has to show some sort of Liam Cohen and Ben Johnson next year.
00:06Otherwise, you know, the seat will get hot.
00:11Hello and welcome to Gangs All Here. My name is Ryan Sampson.
00:13We're joined by New York Post columnist Mark Canizzaro for today's episode of Gangs All Here.
00:18It's Monday, December 22nd. The Jets are coming off a brutal loss to the New Orleans Saints down in New Orleans.
00:23Mark was one of the few writers that were down there covering the Jets game.
00:26And we're here to get his takeaways from yesterday and from Aaron Glenn's presser today where he had some interesting things to say.
00:32But before we get to any of that, Mark, how are you feeling today on this Monday holiday Christmas week?
00:38I'm hanging in. Everything's good. Just, you know, it was an early, early flight this morning from from New Orleans.
00:45Myself and our our gang. I was just on the phone with Costello a minute ago.
00:50It said the gang's not all here if you're not here, but he's taking the day off today, I guess.
00:53So, yeah, look, I really wanted to speak to you today because I thought you asked a brilliant question that Aaron Glenn had to answer for.
01:02And I want to toss the sound here first. Hear his answer.
01:07You asked Aaron Glenn, what can Jets fans take from him and his messaging for the rest of this season and how everything is going right now?
01:15Here's what Aaron Glenn had to say.
01:16Yeah, that that's a good question. And to me, I will continue to say, like, just don't let go of the rope because there is a plan.
01:27There is a vision from day one.
01:30We've been trying to set the foundation of what we want this team to be.
01:33And a lot of that is from in-house perspective, for the most part.
01:38You still have a number of things that you have to have to go through as far as, man, making sure that everybody understands exactly what you're trying to accomplish when you like what type of team do you want to be?
01:51And our guys know that they do.
01:54But listen, we have to continue to work on that between me and Moose.
01:57We got to continue to like players that we want like that whole deal is something that we continue to look at.
02:06And for the fans, listen, it's going to be a tough road.
02:09And we knew that.
02:11But, man, the thing is, we know exactly what we're doing and we do have a plan.
02:15And just don't let go of the rope.
02:17I would say that.
02:17I'm, like, barely hanging on here, Mark, with Aaron Glenn this season.
02:24I know for myself as a younger fan, this is the worst I think I've ever seen it.
02:29I think this is worse even than 2020 when they were tanking.
02:32They're purposely tanking now by playing Brady Cook, in my opinion.
02:35But, really, I think it's good that you asked that question because things can get lost in the slog of a season, right, Mark, where, you know, a team, as they're struggling and being 3-12, they're not winning many games.
02:48And the messaging still has to be there for the future.
02:51I just, I want to get your thoughts on Aaron Glenn's response there when you did ask him that question.
02:57Well, I mean, he, it's clear that he is weeding out the players he doesn't want and trying to bring players he wants, you know, in, bring in players he wants.
03:07You know, the trades earlier in the year, you know, Quinton Williams and Sauce, you know, clearly they were commodities the Jets had.
03:16They, they, they've got the draft capital.
03:18Now they've got to do something with it.
03:20You know, I mean, listen, Aaron has, you know, he's, you know, he's had a number of slip-ups this year, you know, on the field, you know, certainly, you know, we can look back to the Denver game.
03:32I mean, coaching lost that game for them that day.
03:35No, there's no question in my mind.
03:36They threw that away with poor coaching decisions.
03:39But, you know, those are things that are going to happen for, you know, for a rookie head coach.
03:45You know, but he made it, listen, you know, he made a poor decision in bringing in Steve Wilks.
03:51I mean, who he just fired last week.
03:53You know, Steve Wilks was, you know, a one-and-done coach in, I think I wrote last week, I think it was 15 out of the 20 jobs he's had for one year.
04:01I mean, that's a, that's a red flag.
04:03I'm not saying that's a bad person, but, you know, he obviously wasn't doing a good enough job in those places.
04:07You know, early on in his career, in fairness, you know, he's trying to move up the ladder, okay, you're working one-and-dones to try to get to the bigger place.
04:16But, you know, his last five or six spots were, you know, jobs poorly done.
04:23And I understand why Aaron brought him here.
04:25He was the one guy on the staff that had head coaching experience, albeit kind of scant head coaching experience, but he had it.
04:31So that was a poor decision.
04:33You know, it was, obviously, we've seen that the Justin Fields decision was not a sound decision on the part of Aaron, you know, and, you know, Darren Mugi.
04:42And the fact that they didn't make, you know, Justin Fields, you know, compete for the job in training camp was curious to all of us who watched and had seen his previous stops in his career.
04:56You know, and the way he protected Fields was odd, you know, throughout the year, too.
05:02He was really kind of, you know, had kid gloves on him for some reason.
05:07And I'm not saying he has to be, you know, a tyrant, but I really feel like he protected him.
05:13And, you know, I mean, now we've got a Justin Fields who's pretty much checked out, you know.
05:17And, I mean, you know, there's a reason why Brady Cook is playing because Justin Fields doesn't want to be on the field.
05:22No.
05:23So, and the Jets want to see, you know, hey, maybe Brady Quinn can be a backup, you know, next year.
05:29That's really all that they're doing at this point.
05:32But, yeah, listen, I mean, he's going to hold on to that plan, a lot of which he doesn't share with us.
05:38You know, I mean, he has a tendency to do these things he did.
05:41And, listen, all this being said, I've been on the record in my columns liking the hire of Aaron.
05:47I covered his entire career as a player.
05:50I've got a lot of respect for him.
05:51And, you know, you can't quit on a guy after one year, even though it's been a rocky one, let's be honest.
06:00But, you know, what Aaron does a lot, and he did it even last night in the press conference yesterday afternoon in New Orleans.
06:07You know, he'll say something like yesterday he talked about the three things I talked to the guys about.
06:12Two of them I'm not going to tell you, but one of them was they played with a great effort.
06:17Well, I mean, so, you know, he'll never really tell us what the actual plan is, but he's talking about the plan.
06:23And that's kind of where the question I asked, you know, getting around to that, is the fans are, you know, the fans are being sold this plan, but they don't really know what it is, you know.
06:34And it's hard at 3-12 to have a lot of, there's not a lot to hang on to.
06:41You look at that locker room, there's a lot of talent in there.
06:44I mean, you know, Brees Hall is overrated, you know, and he's probably their best, you know, offensive weapon in that room.
06:55Listen, Garrett Wilson is the best weapon in that room, but obviously he's been hurt.
06:59He's the leading receiver with, and it's, he hasn't played in weeks.
07:04He's played seven games, and he leads the team in receiving yards.
07:07I mean, it's staggering.
07:08It's just like, you know.
07:09This team is so, but that, so that's where I get hung up on, because I listen to his words as a fan, right?
07:15I should pay attention to what Aaron Glenn, when he does want to speak, and does want to give information out, and doesn't want to reveal everything.
07:21But when he does, he says, we're building a foundation.
07:24How am I supposed to believe that you're building a foundation when you fired your first, your defensive coordinator in his first year?
07:32How is that building a good foundation?
07:34Well, I'm not going to argue with that.
07:37I actually give him credit for admitting he made a mistake there.
07:40You know what I'm saying?
07:41I'm okay with that, but go find a better one now, right?
07:44So, you know, I'm not going to kill him for that, because he at least admitted he made a mistake.
07:52It wasn't a good fit.
07:53So, move on.
07:54And, honestly, the games that had preceded, you know, Wilkes' firing, you know, I mean, it just, you just couldn't, you can't stand on that, on that.
08:04You know, I mean, a change had to be made.
08:07But, now, I understand what you're saying.
08:09What is the, I'm, like, what's the personnel foundation there?
08:12Okay, I mean, their offensive line, they've got some pieces on that offensive line.
08:16I was just talking to Kaz, you know, last night over dinner, are we overrating Olu?
08:21And, listen, and Membu, this is his first year, so let's, you know, let's tap the brakes on that.
08:26But he's done a pretty good job, I think, as a rookie coming in here.
08:29But, you know, I mean, that offensive line was pathetic yesterday.
08:32They weren't picking up blitzes.
08:34No.
08:34I mean, eight sacks, 57 yards and losses.
08:37And, listen, again, it's not all on that.
08:41I mean, Brady Cook was holding the ball way too long.
08:44Way too long, and his pocket presence.
08:45And he wasn't recognizing blitzes.
08:46Yeah.
08:46So, there was a lot of elements.
08:49But, in theory, they have at least a decent offensive line to build on.
08:55You know, hopefully, you know, I'm thinking maybe they re-sign Vera Tucker maybe on a one-year next year.
09:02Even though he gets hurt every year, he's a quality individual.
09:06He's a really good player when he's playing.
09:08But, I mean, you know, okay, you've got Garrett Wilson.
09:10And then you have nobody else.
09:12I mean, you've got pedestrian receivers after that, right?
09:14But, they don't have a proper number two, certainly.
09:17I mean, these, you know, Mechie and –
09:20And Mitchell.
09:21And, you know, and AD.
09:23I mean, those guys are third or fourth receivers, you know.
09:28It's just, you know, I don't know.
09:29It's – the defense, to me, has been probably more disappointing than anything.
09:34You know, on that group, I thought they had a pretty good unit.
09:37And, again, you've got to throw them a little bit of a bone.
09:39You know, they're playing a bunch of rookies in the secondary.
09:41You know, there's been a lot of injuries.
09:43Obviously, they traded sauce.
09:45But there's just not – I mean, you look through that locker room,
09:48and it's just like, you know, who are the go-to guys there?
09:51You know, there's not a lot of go-to guys.
09:53So, they got – you know, Aaron, you know, he talked about him and Muj.
09:56Me and Muj, we got to – you know, we got to get players in here.
09:59You know, and they've got – obviously, we know they've got the two first-round picks this year.
10:03They've got a lot of draft capital.
10:05Obviously, three first-rounders next year.
10:07I am fascinated to see if the Giants end up with that number one pick,
10:14which they're in line for right now, obviously.
10:16And I'm actually going to Vegas this weekend to cover them against the Raiders,
10:21and that's going to be the number one draft.
10:23That's going to be the Mendoza Bowl, basically, although the Giants don't need Mendoza.
10:27Yep.
10:27So, the Jets have got to pray that the Giants, you know, lose that game
10:33and get the number one pick because then they're perfect trade partners
10:37because the Giants, in theory, don't need a quarterback.
10:40And the Jets have got the draft capital, and the Giants have got a lot of holes to fill too.
10:44So, that really is a very, very – that's a good marriage right there, you know,
10:47in terms of a trade situation.
10:48Yeah.
10:49There's – listen, Mark, Jets fans are already lining up their rooting interests.
10:53They've been looking at it, the schedule ahead now for weeks, circling this Raiders-Giants game.
10:58I know I have myself because the Raiders do need a quarterback,
11:01and they're going to – if they do end up with that number one pick
11:03and the Giants, let's say, win that game, then the Jets have very little chance
11:07of getting up to number one unless the Raiders can pull off a victory against the Chiefs,
11:10who, again, lost to the Titans yesterday.
11:12You have no idea how that could play in the last week of the season too.
11:15But, yeah, this weekend is very important in terms of Jets fans rooting interest
11:18because that's my ultimate question here, Mark, is the quarterback.
11:22The quarterback, the quarterback.
11:23Aaron Glenn cannot get this situation right.
11:26He could try and put as many pieces on this team and insert as much talent as much,
11:31you know, from free agency or through the draft.
11:33But no matter what, if they don't get the quarterback decision right in the draft, Mark,
11:38they're going to be stuck in this middle ground slash bottom of the league
11:42where they never get themselves back into the playoffs and get themselves into play.
11:47It's where they've been resided for a decade and a half now, you know,
11:50because of the – they didn't – I mean, now we're seeing Sam Darnold's a winning quarterback,
11:54which is, you know, one of the biggest shocks.
11:56But, you know, they just – they didn't develop him right.
11:59You know, Zach Wilson was an absolute – I mean, you can't even get on the field
12:02with the Dolphins who stink.
12:04You know, yeah, they can't do that again.
12:06But you've got to keep swinging.
12:07You've got to go – you know, if they can get Mendoza and they really think he,
12:11you know, is the guy, you've got to get it.
12:12But, you know, I don't want to be an apologist for Glenn,
12:16and this is something that Kaz and I were talking about again over dinner last night.
12:19It's like, you know, yeah, he made a bad choice in moving his chips, you know,
12:25forward for Justin Fields.
12:28But there weren't a lot of attractive options out there.
12:30I mean, obviously we already know now that Russell Wilson wouldn't have been any good,
12:33you know, because he wasn't good with the Giants.
12:35Because, you know, would Mariota –
12:40Mariota, Jacoby Brissett, Matt Jones, all those guys.
12:44They're all retreads.
12:45Right, but they're all retreads.
12:46But I would argue, and this is where – if Tanner Engstrand's running the Lions offense
12:52that Ben Johnson runs, you need a quarterback that is good in play action,
12:56is going to be a little bit more of a statue in the pocket,
12:58and make reads on time.
13:00All of those traits are not good for Justin Fields.
13:04He never succeeded – he never succeeded in that type of offense.
13:08So it was really a square peg in a round hole, it felt like,
13:10when you chose Justin Fields to be the guy you were going to pick for your first year
13:14as head coach for this quarterback situation.
13:17Justin Fields was never a good passer,
13:19and that's not a good trait for a quarterback if you can't pass very well.
13:23So that wasn't, you know, good from the start.
13:26You know, where do they go from here veteran-wise?
13:29I mean, there's no way that –
13:32Atlanta's not going to let Cousins go because, you know,
13:35their young kid's not going to be back in time for the start of next year.
13:38I mean, that's not going to happen.
13:41I think Mariota's still under contract, if I'm not mistaken.
13:45So I just don't – I mean, it really is – it's grim, you know, right now.
13:50So if you're –
13:50Toby Brissett's been given 25 different opportunities,
13:53and I know he's a quality, quality guy because I happen to –
13:57he happens to be a real favorite of Bill Parcells, who I have mad respect for,
14:02and Bill swears by him.
14:04But, I mean, he's been given opportunity after opportunity,
14:07and he hasn't seized it, you know.
14:08And, you know, they're really – at this point, you really have to –
14:14unless you just see some really, really significant red flags on Mendoza,
14:19if you have a chance to get them, I think you've got to just go for it, you know.
14:23But, listen, you know, we all overrate these quarterbacks once the draft arrives,
14:28and it's going to happen again this year.
14:30There's going to be another quarterback or two that are leaving college.
14:34They haven't all decided to go back yet.
14:37There's still a few guys out there.
14:39But, you know, we're going to overrate them, and they're going to be like, you know,
14:43oh, they're going to go – this guy's going to go right after Mendoza or whatever.
14:47You know, there's always something.
14:49So, yeah, it's just a very, very difficult spot.
14:52They have to get it right.
14:54If they don't get it right, then Aaron Glenn's going to be fired in another year or two.
14:57You know, it's just the way it's going to be, and the cycle will go on.
15:00The cycle will go on.
15:01Yeah.
15:01So, listen, there's two parts there, right?
15:03So, you talk about the situation with Mendoza.
15:07Would you be all in favor of if the Jets identify him as their guy?
15:12It doesn't matter what the draft capital is.
15:13You've got to go up to one as long as it's the Giants, not the Raiders,
15:17and you can get your guy as Mendoza.
15:18You would be all for that.
15:20As long as they believe it.
15:22I'm not smart enough to know how good this kid is.
15:24I mean, you know, him and Indiana have had this magical year out of nowhere, basically, right?
15:30And, you know, it's, you know, did they just catch fire?
15:36I don't know.
15:37You know what I'm saying?
15:38I never profess to be an expert, but if those guys in that building, Muji, you know, A.G.,
15:44Engstrand, the scouts, if they believe in Mendoza the way that Ernie Acorsi believed in Eli Manning,
15:52for example, then you've got to give up whatever the hell you've got to give to get him.
15:56And that's my opinion.
15:59I mean, you just have to go that way if that's what you believe.
16:04I just, you know, again, Jet fans are all so emotionally scarred because they've gotten it wrong so many times.
16:11So that's where we stand right now.
16:14You just have to hope they get it right this time.
16:17And, you know, I mean, listen, there's a lot of pieces that have to fall into place for the Jets to have an opportunity to even draft Mendoza
16:25or consider drafting him.
16:26And the first of that is to make sure the Raiders don't have that first pick because they need a quarterback just as badly as the Jets do.
16:33Yeah.
16:33And then obviously a lot of it hinges on if Dante Moore comes out, he's another highly regarded prospect.
16:38If he does come out, then the Jets could have a chance at either one of those two potentially.
16:41And then who knows what happens with Cleveland, which is a big mess right now in the quarterback room with Shador, Gabriel.
16:47Deshaun Watson's apparently coming back next year from his second Achilles injury.
16:51Who knows what happens in that quarterback room next year for Cleveland and if they do want to take another quarterback.
16:56Mark, my final question for you is, is if Aaron Glenn gets his quarterback in the rookie, you know, drafts a rookie quarterback this year,
17:05and it's not a good year again next year, I mean, it feels like the hot, the seat is already hot right now from the fans perspective,
17:13but how much patience will Woody Johnson have for Aaron Glenn next year?
17:19Because I see a lot of fans canceling their season tickets.
17:22I, again, have never seen it this bad in terms of the perspective and narrative around this team where the last four or five weeks of the season,
17:31the fan, I would say even longer, this fans are just checked out and they don't want to watch this product anymore.
17:36Reporters don't even want to go to the game anymore.
17:38So, yeah.
17:40It's, it's, you know, I mean, I think we've talked about it maybe the last time we, you and I chatted.
17:45I've never seen as sparse a crowd as we've had in the last couple of, I think the Atlanta game was the one,
17:51was the particular one that was just like, I mean, you know, when I was covering the Jets back years ago,
17:57they used to, they used to have the, the NFL would require them to announce these tickets sold and the actual attendance.
18:05And I do remember like the bridge coat tight years, like 95, 96.
18:10I mean, they were like, there was, there were like 50,000 no-shows and, and that's where they were against Atlanta a couple of weeks ago.
18:17And three weeks ago, I want to say, and, and, and it wasn't that much better last week and it's, it ain't going to get much better this week.
18:25Like, although you may have some New England people come in, right?
18:28So, yeah, it's, it's a, listen, Woody Johnson is, I don't want to, I don't want to praise him for being so patient this year because it's only one year.
18:41But I do know that Woody desperately wants Aaron to work out.
18:45This was his handpicked guy.
18:47You know, remember Robert Sala was not his handpicked guy.
18:50That was his brother's handpicked guy, right?
18:51So there's a, there's more into this for Woody.
18:56And I think Woody understands he needs to be patient and let his football people do football, you know?
19:05And I, here's the complication.
19:10Say they draft Mendoza or whomever else they might draft, you know, we all know you don't really want to start the rookie right away.
19:17You know, although the Giants, the Giants essentially did that with dark this year and obviously he got hurt.
19:21He's banged up a little bit.
19:22Well, I mean, they let him sit behind Russell Wilson for the four, what, first four games, you know?
19:26Yes.
19:26Yeah.
19:27But that's, that's kind of what the Jets are going to need to do next year because they can't afford to have a guy sit for an entire year after you've gone, you know, three and whatever, if it's going to be three and 13 or whatever, whatever the number is going to be at the end of the, at the end of this couple of weeks.
19:42You have to show improvement.
19:46I mean, that's something the Giants have not been doing.
19:48That's why, that's why Brian Dayball got fired.
19:49I mean, I thought Brian Dayball and Dart was going to be a, you know, a really good fit.
19:54And I, you know, I've been on record as, you know, being a Dayball supporter.
19:58I still think he's a good head coach, but when you're two and eight for the third straight year, you just can't sell that to the fans anymore.
20:03And that's why, you know, John Mara had to let him go.
20:06And we're going to get to that point with, you know, with Woody and Aaron, if there is an improvement, you know, if there's not improvement shown next year.
20:15So, I mean, that, that, that's where we're at.
20:17I don't call the seat hot.
20:19I know there was one report, Mike Florio said that, you know, this could be a one and done.
20:23Yeah, I don't believe that.
20:24I think that was almost an irresponsible throwing spaghetti against the wall, in my opinion.
20:27And it didn't seem, that's just not the way the Jets people are thinking, you know, around Woody or, or, or Woody himself.
20:34Yeah, listen, Woody, you know, Woody, this is Woody's guy, Aaron Glenn.
20:38And, and, you know, if anybody thinks he's going to fire him after one year, that's thoroughly irresponsible on any owner's part.
20:44You know, if you're, if you're, if you're hiring a guy and you fire him after one year, why'd you hire him in the first place?
20:49I mean, that's just, it's ridiculous.
20:51So, but I will say that, you know, if we're talking hot seat, you know, if, if the Jets are, you know, who, whoever the hell is quarterbacking in the next year,
21:00whether it's Mendoza or, or, or retread veteran, whatever, if they start one and, you know, one and eight, oh, and seven, or whatever the number is next year,
21:07then the seat will get hot because improvement has to be shown.
21:11And, you know, that's going to be a big part of bringing more talent in this year and the off season, this, this coming off season, the draft, using your draft capital.
21:22I think the only thing at this point, Ryan, that's going to recite Jet fans is the Jets somehow getting that first, that first overall pick and pick a Mendoza.
21:32Because right now they have, don't have a lot to hold on to.
21:35I mean, that rope that Aaron was talking about is very frayed after one year.
21:39And it's, you know, it's sad that it's been only one year and it's that frayed, but that's where we're at right now.
21:43There's just not a lot to, to grab a hold of.
21:46And, you know, going back to my question, Aaron earlier today, you know, I asked him what his message was to those fans,
21:53because those fans are not showing up at the games.
21:55As you just mentioned, they're canceling their season tickets and that's bad for business.
21:59And that gets the owner's attention, but more than anything.
22:03And Aaron understands that, but, you know, he's been operating this year as if he, he's on a five-year plan.
22:09And, and there's just no such thing as a five-year plan in this, in this, in this league anymore.
22:14I mean, look what Ben Johnson's done in Chicago and, and Liam Cohen's done in, in Jacksonville.
22:20I mean, those are, those teams stunk, you know, and the difference is they had, they had quartered.
22:26They didn't have like superstar quarterbacks, but both good young quarterbacks, you know,
22:32and, and, you know, Trevor Lawrence is playing, you know, a decently above average.
22:36He's not one of the top five or 10 quarterbacks in the league, but, you know,
22:40so that just shows you how good of a coach Cohen is, right.
22:44And, and, and Ben Johnson, what he's doing in Chicago.
22:47I mean, that place was, that was rudderless for years, you know, when, you know, when,
22:51when Justin Fields was there and whatnot.
22:54So, you know, Aaron Glenn at the end of the day has to show some sort of Liam Cohen and
23:01Ben Johnson next year.
23:02Otherwise, you know, the seat will get hot.
23:05Yeah.
23:06And look, the Jets are the best organization, in my opinion, in all sports.
23:10It's selling hope to its fans.
23:12We got draft picks.
23:13We're going to get the number one pick.
23:14We're going to get the quarterback.
23:16It's right there.
23:17We have a plan.
23:18We have a plan fans, but it's like, we've seen this dog and pony show before.
23:23It's time for you to actually put words to execution.
23:26Go be aggressive after that number one pick and don't let it wait until the draft night
23:30or let another team get up to the number one pick.
23:32If it is the Raiders who don't have the number one pick, like the Jets have to be aggressive
23:35if they want to really address this quarterback situation, Mark, because I completely agree
23:39with you.
23:39The difference between Ben Johnson and Liam Cohen is they have quarterbacks that are young
23:42and fun and talented, and the Jets don't have that.
23:46And they haven't had that in a very long time.
23:48So if they could find that solution this offseason or somewhat address that situation, it'll give
23:55a little bit of hope, hopefully, for Aaron Glenn and Tanner Angstra and company to make
23:59something that is a foundation for the future, but that's a big if, and we still have to
24:03see how they get there.
24:04And believe it or not, there's still two more weeks of this season left to go before the
24:08Jets get to finally to the offseason where the real fun begins for Jets fans.
24:12Mark, I appreciate you, as always, for hopping on here, giving us some of your precious time
24:15and your analysis, as always.
24:16And we're looking forward to talking to you next time, all right?
24:19Sounds good, Ryan.
24:20I'll talk to you later, man.
24:20I'll talk to you later.
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