00:00I want to raise some big questions tonight that are raised from this horrific incident in Deradoon.
00:05Are hate crimes on the rise, as some seem to suggest?
00:09Is racism in Indian society a reality?
00:11Time to confront racism head-on, particularly when it involves students from the Northeast in this instance.
00:18Let's go straight to our talking point.
00:23And to answer those big questions, joining me now, two special guests.
00:27Suash Chakma, Director, Rights and Risk Analysis Group.
00:31And joining me now also, Pradyut Manikya, founder, Tipra Mota, member of the One Northeast Foundation, a leader from Tipura.
00:38I appreciate both of you joining us.
00:40Pradyut, let me come to you first because you've taken up very strongly the case of Anjel Chakma.
00:46The police officer that we've spoken to just now says it was not a racial attack.
00:51He seems to suggest it was just an altercation that went out of control.
00:55Do you believe, are you convinced based on what the father has told you of Anjel, what his brother has said, that this was actually a racial attack and the police are not telling the truth?
01:05You know, from the very beginning, they refused to file an FIR for the first 24 hours, till the father actually had to reach Uttarakhand and assist in the FIR to be registered.
01:20My sister, who's an MP, calling up the chief minister's office and after the intervention, the police had to file an FIR, shows that the police's attitude has been from the very beginning trying to cover up the entire incident.
01:35Now, my point is, let's look at one thing, Rajdeep, 25,000 rupees for anyone who will give message about one of the absconders, the perpetrators who's apparently fled over to Northeast, to Nepal.
01:49Now, is 25,000 the price of Anjel Chakma or anyone's life?
01:53So, that is the sort of attitude we have seen.
01:56Here's another argument that one person happens to be from Manipur, hence it cannot be a racial crime.
02:01In the Northeast, Rajdeep, you are well aware that there are people who are living from Rajasthan, people who are living from Madhya Pradesh, from Karnataka, from Kerala.
02:09That does not mean that they're ethnically Northeastern or Mongolian or Asian-looking people.
02:15And if you are aware, if they think that if somebody is from the Northeast, then the Northeastern racial crime cannot take place.
02:22In Karbi Anglong, one week ago, there were slogans, Karbi Chinese go back.
02:28This was happening in Assam.
02:29So, there are incidences where racial crimes do take place.
02:33But if you look at the entire statement of the police officer, it looks like they're trying to cover up the incident and they would like to protect these people who have actually killed Anjel Chakma.
02:44And I would rather believe the father, the BS of Jawan, who protects the boundaries of India from the Chinese.
02:51And his son has today died by being called Chinese.
02:55I would rather believe the father, I would rather believe the brother, than believe this police officer, who from the very beginning has done everything to curtail, to actually kill this entire investigation.
03:06Are you saying, therefore, that you're not willing to give the police of Uttarakhand the benefit of the doubt until the, even though the investigation is still on, you're convinced as you're saying that there is some kind of a cover-up.
03:18But why would the police want to cover up an instance like this?
03:22Why would the police want to, they've arrested five of the six.
03:26One has reportedly escaped to Nepal.
03:28Pushkar Dhami, the chief minister of Uttarakhand, has spoken to Manik Sa and Tripura and said all action will be taken.
03:36Why are you not convinced, Pradyut?
03:41See, I am not convinced because from the very beginning, they failed to register an FIR.
03:46When the incident took place, the students, there were Thrupra Students Federation, there were Chakma students, who went and tried to file an FIR.
03:55They refused, saying, this is a small hand.
03:57Why are you holding the tongue in this?
04:00Then, they got in touch with my sister, they got in touch with me.
04:04We reached out to the CMO and then the FIR was registered.
04:07The father had to travel to Uttarakhand and he's a BSF Jawaan.
04:11After that, they filed an FIR.
04:12They gave enough time for these people to actually flee.
04:16Only after there was outrage, outroar, did they take some action.
04:21Today, when the brother is saying that they called us Momos, Chinkis, this is not the first time.
04:27You know when Nito Tania was also killed 10 years ago and Bezwarwa committee was set up.
04:32That time also, the police tried to brush it aside as a fight between two people, a misunderstanding.
04:40Every time something happens, they like to live in denial because obviously,
04:45our life is a poor.
04:46Their life has to save them.
04:48But Northeast and India cannot progress till the time we don't address the elephant in the room,
04:56which is that racism exists.
04:58It exists against South Indians at a certain point of time.
05:01It exists against Northeastners.
05:04And every student, every worker faces this every day.
05:07And if the police does not want to acknowledge that, then there will come a time when these actions will have a larger implication.
05:14You know, because you just mentioned the Bezwarwa committee report following the death of Nito Tania about a decade ago.
05:24They had asked for a standalone law or suitable amendments in the existing law.
05:30The recent amendments to the Bharatiya Niai Sahita, such as Section 196, speak about crimes of promoting enmity based on race.
05:39Are you saying they are insufficient when it comes to targeted violence against someone from the Northeast?
05:45Do you believe the existing laws are the problem?
05:47Or the implementation and the stereotypes and prejudices are the problem?
05:50See, you can make a law.
05:54It's a very good question, Rajdeep.
05:57You can make a law.
05:58But if you do not have the heart to implement it, then no matter what you do, it will never yield results.
06:07So today, when a person, a student from Northeast goes to, let's say, Bangalore or goes to Delhi, goes to Gurugram,
06:15you know, and then people mock at us, talk about when COVID happened.
06:21They said, China is like this, Corona, Northeast virus.
06:26So till the time the mentality doesn't change, and the mentality can only change if the people of the rest of India are also taught about Northeast.
06:33We are taught about what is happening in Agra.
06:35We are taught about the Mughals.
06:36We are taught about the Cholas.
06:38We have spoken about the entire history of India.
06:41How much of our history is actually taught in the national curriculum to the rest of India?
06:47So when you start questioning an Indian, just because they eat differently, they look differently, then you can make any amount of law.
06:54It is not going to address the elephant in the room.
06:56I just want to go to Suaj Chakma for a moment.
06:58Suaj Chakma, your first reactions to what we've seen.
07:01Do you believe that this is a clear case of racial hate that Anjel Chakma was a victim of?
07:07The police is trying to play down the issue.
07:10Does that worry you, trouble you?
07:12Well, definitely it's a racial crime, and it has been taking place across the country from the streets of Delhi in Lajparnagar in 2014 when Nidothani was killed.
07:23And there is a specific recommendation from the Bejjburwa Committee to enact a law against racial discrimination, racial violence.
07:31And until and unless we actually enact a law against racial discrimination, it doesn't create fear among the populace.
07:37We will try and get back to Mr. Chakma in a moment.
07:40But I just want to play for a moment what Pushkar Dhami, the Uttarakhand chief minister said.
07:45He spoke on the phone line to Anjel Chakma's father.
07:49He also spoke, as I said earlier, to the Tripura chief minister.
07:53Just listen in, because all this was filmed, and many are saying this is now being converted into a bit of a PR event by the chief minister of Uttarakhand.
08:01Listen in first to his conversation with Anjel Chakma's father.
08:05Anjel Chakma's father.
08:35You see this, Pradyut, this conversation that has been put on tape by the Uttarakhand chief minister speaking to Anjel Chakma.
09:05Anjel Chakma's father assuring him that all action will be taken.
09:09Do you see it as a PR damage limitation exercise that it's all being filmed?
09:14Or do you believe there is genuine empathy out there?
09:16Well, if there is genuine empathy, well, it does not show.
09:22At least, that's what I would like to say.
09:24Second thing, we do not want any empathy or sympathy.
09:29What we want is action.
09:30And there is one person who is absconding.
09:3325,000 rupees has been put as a bounty on his head.
09:35I have already said that we will pay 10 lakhs from our side.
09:38Please get him arrested and bring him to justice.
09:40What we want is not a show in front of a camera.
09:44What we want is justice.
09:45And we want this to stop.
09:48You see, one thing, there are Chakmas in Bangladesh.
09:51There are Tripuris in Bangladesh.
09:52There are Khasi, Garos and Jayantias, Manipuris in Bangladesh.
09:55Today, Hindu Bengalis are killed.
09:58Chakmas are killed.
10:00We raise voice against minorities in Bangladesh.
10:04And this is, we see that India is separate.
10:06And then today in our own country,
10:08a citizen of our own country is killed just because he looks different.
10:12What face can we show to Bangladesh
10:13when we say that they do not protect the minorities?
10:16This is not only about one incident.
10:18This is about the psyche of this country.
10:20This country is a great country.
10:22We love our country.
10:23We want this country to progress.
10:24But it can only progress when you admit that there is an inherent flaw.
10:28And if we admit to a flaw,
10:30we can rectify the flaw by working together.
10:32So, while I appreciate that after 17 days,
10:35he did make a call to Anjil Chakmas' father,
10:39I appreciate that.
10:40I think the real appreciation will come when that fellow is arrested
10:43and all these five of them are put to justice.
10:46Okay, strong words there from you, Pradid.
10:49I appreciate you joining us.
10:51I hope Pushkar Dhami is listening to our conversation.
10:55Either way, I hope he's listening to my take
10:58because it's time now for my take on this issue.
11:02Well, let me give you my take on the issue.
11:04Racial prejudice towards students from the Northeast
11:07has been a festering problem.
11:10Anjil Chakmas' tragic death is another reminder
11:12of how hate in the air can easily spiral into violence.
11:17For the Uttarakhand police to claim that only derogatory remarks
11:20were made in jest and were not racial is symbolic of the problem.
11:25What is jest about calling out someone for his looks to the point
11:29where the person has to repeatedly assert
11:31that I am an Indian and not Chinese?
11:34And if the Uttarakhand Chief Minister Pushkar Dhami wants to show empathy, good.
11:38But he doesn't need to film his conversation with Anjil's father
11:41but should ensure that all the accused are arrested and given swift punishment.
11:47For God's sake, don't convert a family's tragedy into a PR event
11:51but ensure that the rule of law is enforced with a firm hand.
11:55Anjil's death must not go unpunished
11:59and we must make every effort to ensure that it's never repeated.
12:05We cannot have racial hate being spread on this kind
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