There are two types of people in the world…

People who need closure…

“Never trust a tech worker” they said, using a device designed by a tech worker, running software designed by a tech worker, accessing servers maintained by a tech worker, on a hosting service implemented and managed by tech workers, through an internet service provider employing tech workers galore.

I was being hyperbolic. The actual point is that calling yourself a socialist community and only accepting anarchists is downright misleading to a significant portion of socialists and is representing yourself as something far more broad than you actually are

you’re right, I was being hyperbolic

You say these things as if I don’t think they’re all horrible statistics. The world we live in sucks and it can get better. I’m just not here for the meme in that OP, because it vilifies people trying their best with positive intent - the voters, not the candidates - and when I made my disagreement with it known, got banned for being rude to the anarchist mod.

We’ve gotten way off topic. I’m fully on board with a bunch of people in government being horrible leaders, including people like Obama and Harris. But that isn’t what the meme was about.

I see. Then you’ve completely misunderstood me from the beginning, because I have never once promoted or supported the intentional misleading of the public into the belief that their votes are more effective than they actually are.

You may think my statements amount to that, but you’d still be misunderstanding.

My only point has been that many people believed that the Democratic candidate for president would have been less likely - not even unlikely, just less - to be involved in the kinds of war crimes Trump has been. And vilifying those people for choosing to vote and continuing to believe in the righteousness of that vote is a position of shameless moral superiority that is antithetical to socialist goals, as it places the onus on the rest of your class bretheren who tried their best in a shitty situation, instead of on the actual electoralists. By poking your fingers in the eyes of those who voted Democrat and continue to believe they did the right thing, you are doing exactly what the oligarchs hope: you’re dragging down other workers instead of doing literally anything constructive to change it. You just blame others and meme on them. The phony moral superiority is gross.

Like, for fuck sake man, I don’t even like the Democrats. I caucused for Bernie and got in huge fights with family over how that shit went down. But I still wound up voting for the Democratic candidate because I’m not gonna watch my trans friends get murdered and say “sorry, I could’ve actually voted against this, but then I’d just be supporting a broken system”

And to compare Obama’s administration to Trump’s is a joke, honestly disgusting. You cannot honestly be trying to say that what we’re seeing with ICE is not 1000x worse. You’re also falling for a well understood trap in this dataset: Bush put in place the systems that ran wild without oversight during Obama’s first term, which were then addressed (and why it went down in his second term), and the Obama administration changed how deportations were defined so as not to hide the actual numbers - they increased transparency and stopped using bullshit terms like voluntary returns to the hide the numbers. So yeah, the numbers went up when he literally exposed the problem of misreporting and then went on to make it better in his second term.

You are literally giving Obama credit for Bush’s mistakes, and giving a Trump credit for Obama and Biden’s improvements while he’s actively making it worse again. it’s fuckin gross

The community is advertised in its description as socialist. It makes no mention of anarchists. It is unreasonable to expect people to check the mods and servers ideology before commenting (not even posting…commenting). I’m not debating the right to kick me out. I’m calling the approach asinine for its lack of transparency and false equivalency.

The fact that you are so insistent on implying that supporting elections is antithetical to modern socialism is indicative of how disingenuous your argument is. You’re anarchists, and that’s fine. But please don’t pretend like all socialists, as a rule, reject the idea of elections, or that even most socialists are anarchists. It’s just lying with extra steps.

I think making a community, calling it socialist, and then banning someone for not being an anarchist, even if the instance itself is anarchist, is silly and a great example of someone power tripping 🤷‍♀️ It plays as a purity test on a broader space

if “hey, people who vote aren’t terrible people, they just want to try to do something to effect change” is neoliberal garbage well then call me a neoliberal socialist I guess?

didn’t realize “hey maybe don’t villainize voting” was now considered a conservative, right wing position but whatever you say

And frankly I don’t give a fuck what the mod thinks about you calling it anarchist, if the billboard out front says “socialist” and not “anarchist”, then don’t be fuckin surprised when non-anarchists show up. it is wild that you’ve boiled this down to “well some socialists are anarchists and the main mod is an anarchist, so even though it doesn’t say anarchist, it’s an anarchist space and you need to get out”. Absolutely wild.

As I said on the OP, free from ML influence my ass xD

Social anarchism is not the part of anarchism that survived, my dude. People are rediscovering it now, sure, but socialism has never been predominantly or even plurality anarchist.

Claiming all socialist spaces as anarchist spaces is disingenuous at best, willfully misleading at worst

Yeah I’ve now got anarchists showing up, telling me I’m “invading their anarchist space with classic neoliberal talking points” but that community outright claims to be socialist? I’m pretty sure that entire community is a bunch of anarchists trying to get actual socialists to shift towards crazy.

Anarchist community? That sure as shit isn’t what the community claims to be! I checked before replying. It claims to be “socialist”, and socialism is far as fuck from anarchist. So kindly explain to me how that is an anarchist space?

You can call it neoliberal if you want but decisions are made by the people who show up. That’s not political. It’s practical. And has nothing to do with my ideology. I’m a socialist, but I’m not a communist, and I sure as shit am not an anarchist.

the fuck are you talking about? the meme is literally a shot at the people who supported her candidacy and argue today that things wouldn’t be how they are now under Trump.

whatever, this isn’t what this sub is for. done with this particular thread

it’s really not. but I understand if you can’t see the difference

Still not rule breaking in that community though? if they’d posted this I’d have had a conversation about it sooooo…?

Didn’t defend Kamala. Defended the people who chose to vote for her instead of abstaining. Very big difference

who defended her? I defended the people who chose to vote for her instead of abstaining. Big fucking difference

And this is literally the entire problem. Y’all can’t tell the difference between people who support shitty policies, and people who do what little is within their power to reduce harm

honestly it gives me disappointed big sister vibes

Congratulations on being someone who chose to watch the world burn instead of trying to stop it in whatever small ways were possible.

Your moral superiority must feel great from the safety of your keyboard.